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Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and Flash in mid
 2012?
From: Gary Griswold <gary@shortsands.com>
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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:59:38 -0400
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To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org

Peter,

Sorry, it was my mistake.  I was referring to Jonathan Campo's recent =
call for us to all get to work.  But, in re-reading the email I see that =
he has a gmail address, and is probably not a google employee.

Gary


On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Peter Elst wrote:

> Sorry if I missed something - what author of the last 'rant' are you
> referring to - would be nice to hear if there's a colleague at Google
> involved in Apache Flex.
>=20
> - Peter
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Gary Griswold <gary@shortsands.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> I am the sole software developer of a small publisher and I do that =
as a
>> volunteer.  It is not feasible that I would also contribute to the =
Flex
>> project, but the author of this last 'rant' works at Google.  If =
Google is
>> permitting you to work on Flex then the rest of us who use Flex are =
greatly
>> indebted to you.
>>=20
>> But are you suggesting that those who are unable to contribute should =
have
>> no voice in the process?
>>=20
>> Gary
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>>=20
>>> While I enjoy watching the banter this exact conversation has played =
out
>>> many times before.
>>>=20
>>> So let me skip to the end.
>>>=20
>>> You, have an amazing idea to completely change Flex and make it =
super
>>> awesome.
>>>=20
>>> We, are a community happy to help and develop.
>>>=20
>>> Rather than spending effort sending emails start coding. With code =
people
>>> can see direction and join up and take action.
>>>=20
>>> You want a cross compiler?! Awesome! Start making it and others will
>>> follow. I know of many side projects in the work all to help the
>> community.
>>> I have one of my own right now.
>>>=20
>>> The most helpful thing you can do is start writing code or making a =
plan
>> of
>>> attack that others can join in on. So let's get back to coding and =
make
>>> something amazing.
>>> On Jun 27, 2012 8:35 AM, "Desai, Ashish S" =
<ashish.s.desai@jpmorgan.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Precisely yes. So we should have at least some focus on building =
cross
>>>> compilers that perform as beautifully as the Flex in Flash Runtime =
does
>> and
>>>> then Voila, we have devised an amazing framework that the world =
would
>> want
>>>> to use.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ashish
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Gary Griswold [mailto:gary.griswold@gmail.com] On Behalf Of =
Gary
>>>> Griswold
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 11:30 AM
>>>> To: flex-users@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: What is the general perception of Apache Flex and =
Flash in
>>>> mid 2012?
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi,
>>>>=20
>>>> I would like to second Brett's motion.  The best possible direction =
for
>>>> Apache Flex would be if it ran in a JS runtime on all devices.  =
Some
>>>> animation capabilities would be lost, but I don't think most Flex
>>>> developers would miss them.  And someone would need to develop the =
big
>>>> components, like DataGrid and Charts.  I don't know how many people =
need
>>>> Advanced Data Grid or the recently added OLAP features.  Possibly, =
some
>>>> complex and little used features would be jettisoned in order to =
make
>> the
>>>> transition to JS.
>>>>=20
>>>> Gary
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Brett Adam wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> IMHO Flex needs to become decoupled from Flash to have continued
>>>> relevance and an opportunity to grow.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I'm currently at Velocity in Santa Clara and have heard repeated
>>>> derisive laughter from large audiences of IT operations folk =
whenever
>> Flash
>>>> has been mentioned by a presenter.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> To me this drives home an important point: it's not just the =
browser
>>>> providers and device vendors that dislike Flash: it's the guys that =
run
>> the
>>>> severs as well.  Opposition on two fronts.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> As a Flex developer, the prospect of using cobbled together =
toolkits to
>>>> do JavaScript dev leaves me feeling like my fingers have been cut =
off.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> The main reasons are ActionScript3 vs JavaScript and the =
consistency
>> and
>>>> breadth of the Flex framework vs the patchwork of JavaScript =
components
>> and
>>>> tooling.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Neither of which should be coupled to Flash IMHO
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Oh how I wish AS3 were available in a plain browser.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> $0.02
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Brett
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:58, Jeffry Houser <jeffry@dot-com-it.com> =
wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 6/27/2012 10:24 AM, Desai, Ashish S wrote:
>>>>>>> I think there is a lack of trust among big enterprises investing =
in
>>>> Flex, on the survival story of Flash/Flex. While it is true that =
for
>> large
>>>> complex projects Action Script and Flex are the best platforms, the
>> future
>>>> of Flash/Flex lies in major OS vendors providing support for the =
Flash
>>>> Player Runtime.
>>>>>> Or the future of Flex could like in decoupling the Flex Framework =
from
>>>> the Adobe runtimes of Flash Player and AIR.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> There has to be a road-map to get off Flex and build in other
>>>> technologies and frameworks to mitigate the risk of the unknown =
future
>> of
>>>> flex.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Apache doesn't really work on the "Roadmap" route.  The Flex =
project
>> is
>>>> "Staffed" with a bunch of volunteers with differing commitments and
>>>> priorities.  That is different from a formal product from a public
>>>> corporation.  For all intents and purposes. we do want we want.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I think the first line of defense would be for Apache Flex to =
get
>> into
>>>> dialog with Apple, Google, and Microsoft on the support of Flash =
Player
>>>> Plugins and Runtimes.
>>>>>> And how can we help you with that?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jeffry Houser
>>>>>> Technical Entrepreneur
>>>>>> 203-379-0773
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.flextras.com?c=3D104
>>>>>> UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.theflexshow.com
>>>>>> http://www.jeffryhouser.com
>>>>>> http://www.asktheflexpert.com
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
>>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
>>>> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
>>>> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
>>>> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
>>>> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
>>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20