incubator-flex-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Michael Schmalle <apa...@teotigraphix.com>
Subject Re: [FalconJx] Prototype ActionScript -> JavaScript compiler code up in svn
Date Fri, 14 Dec 2012 11:38:49 GMT
Heh,

Dan, what you said below I could agree with 100%. The only reason I am  
writing a cross compiler is for an RIA platform to stand on it, using  
the as you put it "RIA platform, reuse  existing code base, don't dump  
the years of work, experience and  effort."

I will say this for the 4th time, I have an audio framework I am  
developing for Android Java developers that will use the same DSP  
engine found in the Caustic app for Android, take a look [0].

Why bring this up Mike? Adobe taught me one huge lesson in my naive  
business dealings in the past, don't put all your eggs in one basket.  
I already have about 4 different audio apps I will be releasing in the  
next year or two.

This just proves why I am putting time into the cross compiler, I  
"feel" something about it with my intuition. I have been with  
ActionScript since 2001 and Flash 5. Maybe I'm sentimental or maybe I  
have used ActionScript so long that I know how fast I can write  
programs with it. (BTW I don't even write in AS3 right now)

Anyway, we will see, I will keep plugging away at the two sides of my  
brain and see if I meet others along the path.

Mike

- [0] https://github.com/teotigraphix/caustic-core


Quoting Daniel Wasilewski <devudesign@gmail.com>:

> I am with you Mike on this in 100%.
>
> If I can add something to it.
>
> I would rather thing of Falcon/ FalconJS being contributed to Apache  
> as just a cool name. Code base? Does anybody do care these days of  
> quality of it?
> If possible to investigate a better way of doing it, why not?
>
> Equation was always like  Adobe != Quality-of-code, They've been  
> always trying to get stuff done quickly and monetise it. I don't  
> expect anything more from them.
> This is a corporation not quality control or W3C guardians. You have  
> opportunity to see how Flex source looks like on your own eyes.
>
> I had no plans from very beginning to contribute to Flex itself  
> because I am against of the framework that over the time contributed  
> heavily to the bad reputation of Action Script itself. Encouraged  
> developers to build on top of it and act in Adobe Corp style. Get it  
> done, monetise.
>
> Problem is, when comes to HTML5 Adobe is no longer in control of  
> their runtime. You facing much wider competition and trust me, there  
> is plenty of solutions out there trying to do the same thing from  
> several years. My favourite language-> JS/HTML5. We all know that  
> Flex has been designed by Adobe to attract many developers from  
> different platforms.
>
> Why would I use Flex->JS if can take C++,C#,Java,Python,whatever ->JS?
>
> The only way to make it happen is*not**only* to give you ability to  
> translate from one language to another, but offer RIA platform,  
> reuse existing code base, don't dump the years of work, experience  
> and effort. And make it *competitive*. If some day you will hear,  
> that people using Flex because HTML5 applications it produces are  
> robust, snappier and well performing it is the only reason why this  
> whole project is worth it. Otherwise if you just having plans to get  
> something done, you better put your energy into something else. Some  
> may be short sighted here but this very part FalconJS, that many  
> considering as little subset for now, is something that may even  
> keep the Flex project alive in near future.
>
> And just happened that here is few people capable of making it  
> happen, I would love to see them working together with the same goals.
>
> Dan
>
> On 12/14/2012 10:48 AM, Michael Schmalle wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> This is great to hear. I'm kind of a hard head myself. What we are  
>> doing is going against what the majority says is possible.
>>
>> I see petitions to kill the Flash Player, uninstall it from your  
>> browser stuff... You get where I am going with this?
>>
>> Ignorant developers associate ActionScript3 with the Flash Player  
>> and not with a very mature OOP language. With the new Falcon  
>> compiler we have a very powerful tool to transform ActionScript  
>> into something it has never been before, Flash Player independent.  
>> This is my vision.
>>
>> It just so happens that ActionScript and JavaScript share a lot of  
>> the same semantics on the AST level so we have a natural fit.
>>
>> Erik, we need people to bridge the language gap between AS and JS.  
>> You are acting as the translator right now. I know you are not  
>> going to get every translation correct in the start, but you need  
>> to realize this is going to take a few running starts to jump the  
>> divide!
>>
>> To others, I am pretty satisfied with my prototype being a viable  
>> solution to cross compile. That being said, I HAVE NO plans to work  
>> on the older FalconJS code, its just to much of a rats nest and  
>> Adobe left a 1/3 of code in there that has no relevance to our  
>> project.
>>
>> So in my pessimistic voice, if I can't get this prototype to  
>> eventually spit out what we need, that will be it for me. :) But,  
>> 103 granular unit tests prove I am on my way to succeeding with  
>> this design.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Quoting Chema Balsas <jbalsas@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi Erik, I'm with Mike on this one. Lead and others will follow.
>>>
>>> I for one plan to stick around the compiler and mostly the JS generation.
>>> I've still to find the time to dive deep into your approach, but I'll be
>>> working on it for sure. You can definitely count me in.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chema
>>>
>>> 2012/12/14 Michael Schmalle <apache@teotigraphix.com>
>>>
>>>> Erik,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, unless there's people out there that are willing to
>>>>> contribute to Alex's (and now my) approach to getting from AS to JS,
>>>>> my time is spend better helping out on another part of the project.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Saying this kindof pisses me off. I just spent the last week writing a
>>>> compiler that will allow us to do any type of cross compile we want.
>>>>
>>>> Dude, you gotta stick to your guns man! If what you decided on for the
>>>> time being is goog, the use it! Frank can have his opinion but, you are
>>>> doing something and that means you need answers which you sought out.
>>>>
>>>> If you research me a bit, I was a component developer since 2003. To say
>>>> you will not get help with the component framework is bs. I'm right here,
>>>> really how many people does it take to make something in the world. Right
>>>> mow a bunch of people would muddle stuff up.
>>>>
>>>> I remember spouting the same crap back in January when I left the project
>>>> for 8 months this year. What I realized is if there was one thing I wanted
>>>> to do, it's allow AS3 to run on something other than the Flash  
>>>> Player. This
>>>> is my main goal, why? I have no freaking reason other than I have to much
>>>> experience in AS3 and the like to throw it away for some "new" language,
>>>> blah blah.
>>>>
>>>> What I am trying to do here is make the lower level. You cannot expect a
>>>> lot of people to help out here, they just don't have a clue what is going
>>>> on. Your a leader, lead my friend and keep going, I will join up  
>>>> when I get
>>>> the compiler working correctly in the prototype.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Erik de Bruin <erik@ixsoftware.nl>:
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sitting here feeling sorry for myself, I actually learned a
>>>>> lot setting up the current approach. I'm just wondering if it is worth
>>>>> my time to pursue this avenue when everyone else seems more interested
>>>>> in going in a (as far as I understand) completely different direction.
>>>>> Getting this "done" is a major project which I cannot get done on my
>>>>> own. So, unless there's people out there that are willing to
>>>>> contribute to Alex's (and now my) approach to getting from AS to JS,
>>>>> my time is spend better helping out on another part of the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> EdB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Erik de Bruin <erik@ixsoftware.nl>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, basically, nobody loves the "goog" approach I spend the last
weeks
>>>>>> working on (based mostly on feedback from the various discussion
on
>>>>>> the list).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or, let me rephrase, nobody cares enough to contribute to it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EdB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Frank Wienberg <frank@jangaroo.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is great news, Mike! I will also try to dig into your code
this
>>>>>>> weekend.
>>>>>>> In the meantime, I've been busy figuring out the "essence" of
a new
>>>>>>> JavaScript runtime format that uses the principles described
 
>>>>>>> in my blog,
>>>>>>> but relies on RequireJS (not goog!) and ECMAScript 5 API, making
it way
>>>>>>> more concise than the current Jangaroo Runtime. For IE8 and other
>>>>>>> non-ES5
>>>>>>> browsers, we would then use polyfills for all ES5 functions used.
>>>>>>> Let's see if I can get an approval from my company to contribute;
if it
>>>>>>> takes too long, I'd blog about the concepts and you or someone
else
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> have to implement them.
>>>>>>> Greetings
>>>>>>> -Frank-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:31 AM, Michael Schmalle
>>>>>>> <apache@teotigraphix.com>**wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not really,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I rebuilt everything from scratch. Yes I copied about half
the code in
>>>>>>>> pieces. I purposely put it all back together myself so I
knew what was
>>>>>>>> going on. So every class in the committed code was assembled
by me, to
>>>>>>>> figure out it's function if relevant to the new design.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Besides most of it had either be deleted of changed because
I am not
>>>>>>>> targeting SWF what so ever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried to stick with the same base implementation so we
kept the
>>>>>>>> multi-threaded Falcon parsing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take a look at the org.apache.flex.compiler.****internal.js.codegen
>>>>>>>> package.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Specifically ASBlockWalker from that class alone you should
see that
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> is a completely different implementation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A note to others looking at the code, in the ASBlockWalker
I  
>>>>>>>> have mixed
>>>>>>>> some javascript emitting specific to the closure compiler.
I want to
>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>> this and have a base class not dependent on anything but
to be able to
>>>>>>>> override it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Case in point, most expressions and statements map the same
in AS to
>>>>>>>> JS,
>>>>>>>> so having a base implementation not tied to anything will
be  
>>>>>>>> a positive
>>>>>>>> thing. I also don't like mixing design specific things in
the base
>>>>>>>> traversing class, another reason why I want an abstract base
or two.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, very prototype code and I reserve the right to yank
things
>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>> :) I just wanted to get it up to show others there might
be an easier
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more flexible way to get to where we need to go without the
BURM.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quoting Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will try to look this weekend.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can you briefly describe the important files to look
at?  Did you
>>>>>>>>> copy the
>>>>>>>>> FalconJS files then do most of your work in a few of
them?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> -Alex
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/13/12 3:37 PM, "Michael Schmalle" <apache@teotigraphix.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, I spent the last 4 days working on this to
where it was
>>>>>>>>>> something we all could start talking about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it viable?, I really think so. I have spent a
lot of time
>>>>>>>>>> tinkering
>>>>>>>>>> with the framework, take a look. It's in my whiteboard
for now under
>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>> Eclipse projects.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know there was just a discussion about .project
files but I
>>>>>>>>>> committed the .project and .classpath for both application
and test
>>>>>>>>>> project, just like the rest of Falcon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm working on more documentation. A thing to note
about  
>>>>>>>>>> the code, my
>>>>>>>>>> goal is to product ActionScript first, I will explain
my thinking
>>>>>>>>>> later but, since I'm the one putting this together,
that is what I
>>>>>>>>>> decided was best for testing first. Once we get all
ActionScript
>>>>>>>>>> generating, we start overriding things for JavaScript
specific
>>>>>>>>>> implementations.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Source [0]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Right now I have 103 unit tests ALL passing for expressions
and
>>>>>>>>>> statements. Its a good start.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Note; I have not don't a build file, if anybody wants
to go for it.
>>>>>>>>>> Please, I hate them. :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Peace,
>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - [0] https://svn.apache.org/repos/****asf/incubator/flex/**
>>>>>>>>>> whiteboard/**<https://svn.apache.org/repos/**asf/incubator/flex/whiteboard/**>
 
>>>>>>>>>> mschmalle/<https://svn.apache.**org/repos/asf/incubator/flex/**
>>>>>>>>>> whiteboard/mschmalle/<https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/flex/whiteboard/mschmalle/>
 
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Alex Harui
>>>>>>>>> Flex SDK Team
>>>>>>>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>>>>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>>>>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Ix Multimedia Software
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
>>>>>> 3521 VB Utrecht
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T. 06-51952295
>>>>>> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Ix Multimedia Software
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
>>>>> 3521 VB Utrecht
>>>>>
>>>>> T. 06-51952295
>>>>> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com


Mime
View raw message