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Subject: Re: Flex 5 in haxe
From: Hordur Thordarson <hordur@lausn.is>
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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:47:00 +0000
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To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org

While I understand the desire to deploy mobile apps to mobile browsers, =
I would just point out again that this is not what the industry is =
doing, and there are reasons for that. =20

The reasons are that in the mobile browser you can't get the same =
performance, the same UI experience and the same access to native =
features as you can in a native app.  Also, you can't distribute your =
app in the same way (correct me if I'm wrong please). =20

That being said, there are scenarios where it is actually desireable to =
be able to deploy to the browser, but I think you are then better off =
writing a native HTML/JS UI with best-of-breed tools for that toolstack, =
rather than going some cross-compilation roundabout way.

On 17.11.2012, at 14:10, Nils Dupont wrote:

> When you say HTML5 is not ready yet for entreprise RIA, I agree with =
you
> for desktop applications (it is what I added in nota bene) because of
> current browser fragmentation (there are still companies using =
IE7...), but
> in the mobile world, browsers are far in advance concerning HTML5/JS. =
And
> it appears to me that Apache Cordova can generate decent entreprise
> oriented RIA applications, that IMO is the main target of Flex =
framework
> nowadays. If you want to develop a CPU intensive application and you =
need
> to use GPU capabilities, it is maybe better to use Starling directly.
> I don't know Haxe, I am sure it is a great technology and it is fore =
sure a
> way to consider for the future of Apache Flex.
> But it would be also interesting to be able to write a Flex Mobile
> application with almost the same code as today, that can target 7 =
different
> mobile OS without the help of Air runtime. It could be a strong =
commercial
> arguments when selling Flex technology to customers (no more HTML5 vs
> Flash, but in contrast the possibilty to use the best of two worlds).
> Nils
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2012/11/17 s=E9bastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>
>=20
>> i was in fact talking about enterprise app.
>> it is already quite rapidly heavy perf consuming.
>> if all says that HTML5 is not ready yet for RIA and enterprise apps =
that
>> flex can do very well, why the hell would we try to render flex on =
HTML5
>> engine for native apps.
>> I was talking about 3D rendering, in a starling sens, as a background
>> rendering engine, not as application.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Le 17/11/2012 14:25, Nils Dupont a =E9crit :
>>=20
>> It really depends on which kind of application you want to deploy. I =
was
>>> more thinking of common "entreprise" oriented applications, e.g. a =
few
>>> views, with a few lists and a few forms. For 3D rendering I agree =
that it
>>> is not the best way to go.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 2012/11/17 s=E9bastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>
>>>=20
>>> Does not cordova only launch a web browser wrapped in an native app?
>>>> If so, its very bad result in terms of performances right?
>>>> in a native app environement, we can leverage from 3D rendering =
(the best
>>>> performances), but with cordova solution, we will use the lowest
>>>> performant
>>>> renderer available, the HTML5 renderer.
>>>> it does not sound very promising to me, but maybe i'm wrong.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Le 17/11/2012 14:14, Nils Dupont a =E9crit :
>>>>=20
>>>>  Has anyone tried to make a bridge between Apache Flex and Apache
>>>> Cordova?
>>>>=20
>>>>> I mean generating an Apache Cordova HTML5/JS application from a =
Flex
>>>>> Mobile
>>>>> MXML/AS3 application (at least for a subset of Flex Mobile =
components
>>>>> e.g.
>>>>> views & transitions, lists, input controls, native APIs access, =
web
>>>>> service
>>>>> access, etc.)
>>>>> Apache Cordova has the advantage to be able to target 7 different =
mobile
>>>>> OS
>>>>> and of course is open source.
>>>>> For the UI controls, it is possible to use different librairies =
(JQuery
>>>>> UI,
>>>>> Twitter Bootstrap, etc.)
>>>>> Maybe it is also an other way to consider in order to be able to =
deploy
>>>>> Flex Mobile applications to mobile devices without
>>>>> the use of Air runtime?
>>>>> Nils
>>>>> NB: Concerning desktop applications, Flash Player remains, in my
>>>>> opinion,
>>>>> the best way to deploy cross-browser applications.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> 2012/11/17 Maxime Cowez <maxime.cowez@gmail.com>
>>>>>=20
>>>>>    Are developers on this list still able to earn a living =
building new
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Flex apps, or are you maintaining old ones?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I was actually hired 9 months ago by my current company to set up =
a new
>>>>>> Flex development branch, as they wanted a share of the market in =
that
>>>>>> area.
>>>>>> As such I am mainly creating new "enterprise" apps for government
>>>>>> clients
>>>>>> so I can take full advantage of Spark and don't have to worry =
about
>>>>>> legacy
>>>>>> too much. =46rom my experience in that short amount of time I can =
tell
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> this: we started by creating small(-ish), fairly risc-free =
projects,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> we could deliver with very good quality and on time even though =
on a
>>>>>> tight
>>>>>> deadline. Because of Flex's RAD (rapid application development)
>>>>>> possibilities we were able to use prototypes to discuss =
functionality
>>>>>> early
>>>>>> in the development process. All of which lead to very satisfied
>>>>>> customers,
>>>>>> of which some were known to be "clients from hell". Bigger orders =
are
>>>>>> rolling in as we speak.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I'd like to highlight one specific approach we took in selling =
Flex: a
>>>>>> customer wanted us specifically to use Dojo as a technology. We =
took
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> risk to develop a small prototype in Flex and presented it to =
them.
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> saw immediately that the UX was far superior to what they were =
used to.
>>>>>> And
>>>>>> we told them we could *perhaps* deliver the same with Dojo, but =
it
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> cost them at least twice as much (which is a true estimate - not =
just
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> selling purposes - and we had just proven by delivering the =
prototype
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> time). They did not have to think very long about it...
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> We've been trying out various enterprise-level HMTL5/JS =
frameworks and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> truth is, none of them comes even close to what Flex can do in =
terms of
>>>>>> stability, possibilities, performance and most importantly (for =
the
>>>>>> customer) development time. And yes I've included performance in =
that
>>>>>> list:
>>>>>> none of those enterprise-level frameworks have decent performance
>>>>>> compared
>>>>>> to Flex when presenting lots of data; I'm only speaking of =
classic
>>>>>> web-applications here.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> @paul There's a team not far from my desk that's making a GIS
>>>>>> application
>>>>>> with GWT: the project is a total mess and we're loosing money on =
it.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> To sum it up: from my experience Flex as it is now still can be =
sold in
>>>>>> markets that are not too sensitive to buzzwords.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Paul Hastings <
>>>>>> paul.hastings@gmail.com
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Are developers on this list still able to earn a living building =
new
>>>>>>> Flex
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> apps, or are you maintaining old ones?
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>  in our neck of the woods flex is still kind of king for old =
school
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> GIS
>>>>>>> applications (analytical/decision support/etc.) especially =
w/ESRI
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> backends.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> mainly for desktops & some stripped down functionality for
>>>>>>> tablets--much
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> the processing is shared between client & backends.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> while i'm sure there are some big/complex JS/JTML5 apps for this
>>>>>>> market
>>>>>>> somewhere, haven't actually seen any.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>=20