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From Nils Dupont <nilsfrompa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Flex 5 in haxe
Date Sat, 17 Nov 2012 15:19:13 GMT
"I think that Haxe is such a "all use cases" solution when AS3 + Cordova is
not (unless someone proves the contrary)."
Of course not, it is what I said a few times in this discussion.
I don't know Haxe, another time, and I have nothing against the perspective
of using this technology.
But just 2 questions :
1) Can you access to native features like Camera, Accelerometer, File
system, etc. easily with Haxe, and is it cross-platform, I mean able to run
the same on different OS?
http://docs.phonegap.com/en/2.2.0/guide_getting-started_index.md.html
2) Don't you think that the effort of rewriting totally the Flex framework
with Haxe is not too big for the community?
I don't remember who said that in this discussion but Flex represents
something like 200,000 hours of work...
Nils


2012/11/17 sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>

> Hi Carlos,
> By the way thank you for the initiative :)
> Yes i agree that theres a point about simple use cases against complex app
> use cases.
> But if we must consider different solution for every target, it will be
> much more difficult to achieve and maintain, compared to a global solution
> which can fit to all use cases.
> I think that Haxe is such a "all use cases" solution when AS3 + Cordova is
> not (unless someone proves the contrary).
>
> But one thought here, maybe mad one
> if we really start a re write from scratch, why not maintain two language
> versions of the new framework?
> one in AS3 with Alex solution (whatever it is) for cross platform which
> has the big advantage to keep using the already existing AS3 code around
> and make the transition more easy.
> And in parallel tranlate it to haxe which would be a beter solution for
> very new projects (still has to be discussed of course).
> I think that:
> - its doable, as AS3 and haxe are very similar, and if we port any new
> piece of code created in AS3 to haxe anytime time its checked in, it should
> not be so much work to achieve and to keep in synch.
> - it gives the best of the two worlds.
> I agree that its a bit a contradiction with what i complained just above :p
>
>
>
> Le 17/11/2012 15:05, Carlos Rovira a écrit :
>
>  Hi Sebastien,
>>
>> I have use cases where I would need something tiny to be deployed to the
>> browser. We have huge products based on Flex/JEE, and our interface can do
>> lots of things. But our product could be in mobile browsers integrated in
>> diferent webs. We cannot do this right now without targeting HTML/JS.
>>
>> So I'd be happy to be able to develop that components and tiny
>> developments
>> for "browser-mobile" with the same client technology. So this will be make
>> to reuse libraríes and all kind of things (maven, IDE knowledge,
>> deployment
>> strategies....) I only need to select a diferent output...in this case
>> HTML/JS.
>>
>> I'm with you that I would not plan to make any of our huge flex apps in
>> HTML5, we are not mad! ;)
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/17 sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>
>>
>>  i was in fact talking about enterprise app.
>>> it is already quite rapidly heavy perf consuming.
>>> if all says that HTML5 is not ready yet for RIA and enterprise apps that
>>> flex can do very well, why the hell would we try to render flex on HTML5
>>> engine for native apps.
>>> I was talking about 3D rendering, in a starling sens, as a background
>>> rendering engine, not as application.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 17/11/2012 14:25, Nils Dupont a écrit :
>>>
>>>   It really depends on which kind of application you want to deploy. I
>>> was
>>>
>>>> more thinking of common "entreprise" oriented applications, e.g. a few
>>>> views, with a few lists and a few forms. For 3D rendering I agree that
>>>> it
>>>> is not the best way to go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2012/11/17 sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>   Does not cordova only launch a web browser wrapped in an native app?
>>>>
>>>>> If so, its very bad result in terms of performances right?
>>>>> in a native app environement, we can leverage from 3D rendering (the
>>>>> best
>>>>> performances), but with cordova solution, we will use the lowest
>>>>> performant
>>>>> renderer available, the HTML5 renderer.
>>>>> it does not sound very promising to me, but maybe i'm wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 17/11/2012 14:14, Nils Dupont a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>    Has anyone tried to make a bridge between Apache Flex and Apache
>>>>> Cordova?
>>>>>
>>>>>  I mean generating an Apache Cordova HTML5/JS application from a Flex
>>>>>> Mobile
>>>>>> MXML/AS3 application (at least for a subset of Flex Mobile components
>>>>>> e.g.
>>>>>> views & transitions, lists, input controls, native APIs access,
web
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> access, etc.)
>>>>>> Apache Cordova has the advantage to be able to target 7 different
>>>>>> mobile
>>>>>> OS
>>>>>> and of course is open source.
>>>>>> For the UI controls, it is possible to use different librairies
>>>>>> (JQuery
>>>>>> UI,
>>>>>> Twitter Bootstrap, etc.)
>>>>>> Maybe it is also an other way to consider in order to be able to
>>>>>> deploy
>>>>>> Flex Mobile applications to mobile devices without
>>>>>> the use of Air runtime?
>>>>>> Nils
>>>>>> NB: Concerning desktop applications, Flash Player remains, in my
>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>> the best way to deploy cross-browser applications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2012/11/17 Maxime Cowez <maxime.cowez@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Are developers on this list still able to earn a living building
>>>>>> new
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Flex apps, or are you maintaining old ones?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was actually hired 9 months ago by my current company to set
up a
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> Flex development branch, as they wanted a share of the market
in that
>>>>>>> area.
>>>>>>> As such I am mainly creating new "enterprise" apps for government
>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>> so I can take full advantage of Spark and don't have to worry
about
>>>>>>> legacy
>>>>>>> too much. From my experience in that short amount of time I can
tell
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> this: we started by creating small(-ish), fairly risc-free projects,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> we could deliver with very good quality and on time even though
on a
>>>>>>> tight
>>>>>>> deadline. Because of Flex's RAD (rapid application development)
>>>>>>> possibilities we were able to use prototypes to discuss functionality
>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>> in the development process. All of which lead to very satisfied
>>>>>>> customers,
>>>>>>> of which some were known to be "clients from hell". Bigger orders
are
>>>>>>> rolling in as we speak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to highlight one specific approach we took in selling
Flex:
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> customer wanted us specifically to use Dojo as a technology.
We took
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> risk to develop a small prototype in Flex and presented it to
them.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>> saw immediately that the UX was far superior to what they were
used
>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>> we told them we could *perhaps* deliver the same with Dojo, but
it
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> cost them at least twice as much (which is a true estimate -
not just
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> selling purposes - and we had just proven by delivering the prototype
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> time). They did not have to think very long about it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We've been trying out various enterprise-level HMTL5/JS frameworks
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> truth is, none of them comes even close to what Flex can do in
terms
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> stability, possibilities, performance and most importantly (for
the
>>>>>>> customer) development time. And yes I've included performance
in that
>>>>>>> list:
>>>>>>> none of those enterprise-level frameworks have decent performance
>>>>>>> compared
>>>>>>> to Flex when presenting lots of data; I'm only speaking of classic
>>>>>>> web-applications here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @paul There's a team not far from my desk that's making a GIS
>>>>>>> application
>>>>>>> with GWT: the project is a total mess and we're loosing money
on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To sum it up: from my experience Flex as it is now still can
be sold
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> markets that are not too sensitive to buzzwords.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Paul Hastings <
>>>>>>> paul.hastings@gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are developers on this list still able to earn a living building
new
>>>>>>>> Flex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   apps, or are you maintaining old ones?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    in our neck of the woods flex is still kind of king
for old
>>>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  GIS
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> applications (analytical/decision support/etc.) especially
w/ESRI
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   backends.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   mainly for desktops & some stripped down functionality
for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tablets--much
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   the processing is shared between client & backends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> while i'm sure there are some big/complex JS/JTML5 apps for
this
>>>>>>>> market
>>>>>>>> somewhere, haven't actually seen any.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>
>

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