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From sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.f...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Flex 5 in haxe
Date Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:35:41 GMT
its more JS that need some improvements than HTML5. The dream solution 
i'd love to see happen would be to see JS evolve to something very close 
to what AS3 is. (AS3 is ECMAScript and is supposed to be the future of JS)

HTML5 is not mature enough to compete with flash player right now, but 
we have to think about future, and it will improve quite quick with all 
the hype around it.
And even if you prefer flash player, there is our dreams, and there is 
reallity. And reallity is that Adobe is pushing HTML5 for web and giving 
up flash player for that. And we have to be prepared to a time where 
there will not be flash player only HTML5 everywhere. (in several years 
maybe, but will happen unless something drastically change)

You talk about JavaFX and the discussion among them for the need of a 
plugin for what they want. But to achieve that they need Oracle. And 
they will conclude the same than Flex community: its only dream and we 
don't have the power to make it change. You can create a perfect VM in a 
plugin, but if you can't install it on devices because of political 
issues, then it worse nothing.

"This is of course still possible, we just don't know how long it is 
going to last :-( But while it works, I hope Apache Flex will continue 
to be maintained/improved in it's current shape."
It seems that we all say that as well. Theres no contradiction to 
maintain/improve the sdk in its current shape, AND start to prepare its 
future (in another shape if we don't have the choice to do differently)
We need to figure out RIGHT NOW a path for the future of the SDK because :
1- it will take time to realise it and get back the same level of 
features we have today. especially if the only available solution is to 
rewrite it.
2- we need to give visibility for the future so that IT decision makers 
can choose Flex for long term projects. If we don't give this 
visibility, only short term projects will be able to use Flex. And it 
will be seens as "no future" technology in IT world.


Le 21/11/2012 10:33, Hordur Thordarson a écrit :
> On 20.11.2012, at 22:14, Kevin Newman wrote:
>
>> Mark Zuckerberg also said very publicly that Facebook "burned" (his word) 2 years
of development with HTML5, "We burned two years. That's really painful. Probably we will look
back saying that is one of the *biggest mistakes* if not *the biggest strategic mistake* that
we made." It was less of a "cave" and more of a fundamental shift in understanding (and a
correct one).
> Agreed and that's really what I ment by "caved in", they just realized it was never going
to be as good as a native app.  The problem with HTML5/JS as an app mechanism is that it just
wasn't designed for that.  Some changes have been made to it in order to make it easier to
write applications (as opposed to web sites which is a totally different thing) but it really
isn't very good for that at all except maybe for small apps.  The JavaFX crowd is having the
exact same discussion the Flex crowd is, except pretty much no one in the JavaFX crowd wants
to deploy to HTML/JS.  They want JavaFX runtimes for mobile so that they can have one set
of code and the same or very similar runtime everywhere (sound familiar ?).  And the community
is actually working towards a solution that gives them that.  But Oracle, like Adobe, seems
to have given into the "HTML5 for everything" rhetoric so they are at least currently not
backing this.
>
>> This is where Adobe has an opportunity with AIR, that they seem intent on failing
to capitalize on (at least in their marketing narratives, and the signals the decision makers
are sending out into the market place - the Flash engineers are doing pretty cool stuff with
stage3D and whatnot).
> Yep, very frustrating that Adobe gave up on this vision because they had by far the strongest
dev/deployment story out there with almost the best of everything. with Flash player or AIR
for the desktop and AIR for mobile and almost single source for all the platforms (UI tweaks/diffs
for phones/tablets obviously).  This is of course still possible, we just don't know how long
it is going to last :-(  But while it works, I hope Apache Flex will continue to be maintained/improved
in it's current shape.
>
>> Anyway, Apache Flex doesn't need to wait for Adobe's higher-ups to figure it out
- Flex can go HaXe, and have a multi-platform ubiquity story and an open source story to boot.
> Sure.  I have to say though that my clients don't really care if the tools I use are
open source or not or whether the language I write in is ActionScript or Haxe or smth else.
 They care about functionality, usability, cross-platformness and ease of deployment/updating
of the resulting product, and they also want development to cost as little as possible, hence
the less problems I have during dev and the less testing I have to do in multiple browsers
or with multiple runtimes, the better.
>
>> Kevin N.
>>
>>
>> On 11/17/12 5:25 AM, Hordur Thordarson wrote:
>>> Eventually FB caved in and created a fully native app.



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