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From sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.f...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Flex 5 in haxe
Date Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:53:24 GMT
we are not talking about exploying to mobile browsers but about using 
HTML5 engine for native apps like Cordova does.
And again, thats not what the industry is doing TODAY. but tomorrow, we 
can except that the same shift that we observed on Desktop will happen 
on Mobiles, and see the apps going to be webapps.

"you are then better off writing a native HTML/JS UI"
for very simple apps maybe, but for fairly complex ones no.
And if you prefer going native and rewrite everything at any time you 
must target a new platform (even for simple apps), why you like flex in 
the first place?

Le 17/11/2012 15:47, Hordur Thordarson a écrit :
> While I understand the desire to deploy mobile apps to mobile browsers, I would just
point out again that this is not what the industry is doing, and there are reasons for that.
>
> The reasons are that in the mobile browser you can't get the same performance, the same
UI experience and the same access to native features as you can in a native app.  Also, you
can't distribute your app in the same way (correct me if I'm wrong please).
>
> That being said, there are scenarios where it is actually desireable to be able to deploy
to the browser, but I think you are then better off writing a native HTML/JS UI with best-of-breed
tools for that toolstack, rather than going some cross-compilation roundabout way.
>
> On 17.11.2012, at 14:10, Nils Dupont wrote:
>
>> When you say HTML5 is not ready yet for entreprise RIA, I agree with you
>> for desktop applications (it is what I added in nota bene) because of
>> current browser fragmentation (there are still companies using IE7...), but
>> in the mobile world, browsers are far in advance concerning HTML5/JS. And
>> it appears to me that Apache Cordova can generate decent entreprise
>> oriented RIA applications, that IMO is the main target of Flex framework
>> nowadays. If you want to develop a CPU intensive application and you need
>> to use GPU capabilities, it is maybe better to use Starling directly.
>> I don't know Haxe, I am sure it is a great technology and it is fore sure a
>> way to consider for the future of Apache Flex.
>> But it would be also interesting to be able to write a Flex Mobile
>> application with almost the same code as today, that can target 7 different
>> mobile OS without the help of Air runtime. It could be a strong commercial
>> arguments when selling Flex technology to customers (no more HTML5 vs
>> Flash, but in contrast the possibilty to use the best of two worlds).
>> Nils
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/17 sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>
>>
>>> i was in fact talking about enterprise app.
>>> it is already quite rapidly heavy perf consuming.
>>> if all says that HTML5 is not ready yet for RIA and enterprise apps that
>>> flex can do very well, why the hell would we try to render flex on HTML5
>>> engine for native apps.
>>> I was talking about 3D rendering, in a starling sens, as a background
>>> rendering engine, not as application.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 17/11/2012 14:25, Nils Dupont a écrit :
>>>
>>> It really depends on which kind of application you want to deploy. I was
>>>> more thinking of common "entreprise" oriented applications, e.g. a few
>>>> views, with a few lists and a few forms. For 3D rendering I agree that it
>>>> is not the best way to go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2012/11/17 sébastien Paturel <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Does not cordova only launch a web browser wrapped in an native app?
>>>>> If so, its very bad result in terms of performances right?
>>>>> in a native app environement, we can leverage from 3D rendering (the
best
>>>>> performances), but with cordova solution, we will use the lowest
>>>>> performant
>>>>> renderer available, the HTML5 renderer.
>>>>> it does not sound very promising to me, but maybe i'm wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 17/11/2012 14:14, Nils Dupont a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>   Has anyone tried to make a bridge between Apache Flex and Apache
>>>>> Cordova?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I mean generating an Apache Cordova HTML5/JS application from a Flex
>>>>>> Mobile
>>>>>> MXML/AS3 application (at least for a subset of Flex Mobile components
>>>>>> e.g.
>>>>>> views & transitions, lists, input controls, native APIs access,
web
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> access, etc.)
>>>>>> Apache Cordova has the advantage to be able to target 7 different
mobile
>>>>>> OS
>>>>>> and of course is open source.
>>>>>> For the UI controls, it is possible to use different librairies (JQuery
>>>>>> UI,
>>>>>> Twitter Bootstrap, etc.)
>>>>>> Maybe it is also an other way to consider in order to be able to
deploy
>>>>>> Flex Mobile applications to mobile devices without
>>>>>> the use of Air runtime?
>>>>>> Nils
>>>>>> NB: Concerning desktop applications, Flash Player remains, in my
>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>> the best way to deploy cross-browser applications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2012/11/17 Maxime Cowez <maxime.cowez@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Are developers on this list still able to earn a living building
new
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Flex apps, or are you maintaining old ones?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was actually hired 9 months ago by my current company to set
up a new
>>>>>>> Flex development branch, as they wanted a share of the market
in that
>>>>>>> area.
>>>>>>> As such I am mainly creating new "enterprise" apps for government
>>>>>>> clients
>>>>>>> so I can take full advantage of Spark and don't have to worry
about
>>>>>>> legacy
>>>>>>> too much. From my experience in that short amount of time I can
tell
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> this: we started by creating small(-ish), fairly risc-free projects,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> we could deliver with very good quality and on time even though
on a
>>>>>>> tight
>>>>>>> deadline. Because of Flex's RAD (rapid application development)
>>>>>>> possibilities we were able to use prototypes to discuss functionality
>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>> in the development process. All of which lead to very satisfied
>>>>>>> customers,
>>>>>>> of which some were known to be "clients from hell". Bigger orders
are
>>>>>>> rolling in as we speak.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to highlight one specific approach we took in selling
Flex: a
>>>>>>> customer wanted us specifically to use Dojo as a technology.
We took
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> risk to develop a small prototype in Flex and presented it to
them.
>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>> saw immediately that the UX was far superior to what they were
used to.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>> we told them we could *perhaps* deliver the same with Dojo, but
it
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> cost them at least twice as much (which is a true estimate -
not just
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> selling purposes - and we had just proven by delivering the prototype
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> time). They did not have to think very long about it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We've been trying out various enterprise-level HMTL5/JS frameworks
and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> truth is, none of them comes even close to what Flex can do in
terms of
>>>>>>> stability, possibilities, performance and most importantly (for
the
>>>>>>> customer) development time. And yes I've included performance
in that
>>>>>>> list:
>>>>>>> none of those enterprise-level frameworks have decent performance
>>>>>>> compared
>>>>>>> to Flex when presenting lots of data; I'm only speaking of classic
>>>>>>> web-applications here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @paul There's a team not far from my desk that's making a GIS
>>>>>>> application
>>>>>>> with GWT: the project is a total mess and we're loosing money
on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To sum it up: from my experience Flex as it is now still can
be sold in
>>>>>>> markets that are not too sensitive to buzzwords.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Paul Hastings <
>>>>>>> paul.hastings@gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Are developers on this list still able to earn a living building
new
>>>>>>>> Flex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> apps, or are you maintaining old ones?
>>>>>>>>>>   in our neck of the woods flex is still kind of
king for old school
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> GIS
>>>>>>>> applications (analytical/decision support/etc.) especially
w/ESRI
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> backends.
>>>>>>> mainly for desktops & some stripped down functionality for
>>>>>>>> tablets--much
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the processing is shared between client & backends.
>>>>>>>> while i'm sure there are some big/complex JS/JTML5 apps for
this
>>>>>>>> market
>>>>>>>> somewhere, haven't actually seen any.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>


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