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From Michael Schmalle <apa...@teotigraphix.com>
Subject RE: Flex 5 in haxe
Date Fri, 16 Nov 2012 21:19:21 GMT
Folks,

I have sat out this whole day reading everything.

This statement of Gordon's is golden and should be taken seriously. I  
have no idea what the answer is to the 100's of posts today but one  
thing is clear, break the Adobe dependencies however possible and  
don't count on them.

I was also going to say this as well about the MXML compiler, it is  
really not "stuck" to any particular implementation in the and as far  
as language. That is why I brought up what I did about Android and the  
view layer the other day because the compiler in reality is abstract.

Mike

Quoting Gordon Smith <gosmith@adobe.com>:

> If Haxe really produces fast-running and good-looking apps on all  
> platforms of interest (does it?), I think it should be a top  
> contender since it is open-source. You could throw away the  
> ActionScript part of Falcon and make the MXML part of Falcon produce  
> Haxe source code. MXML script blocks, event handlers, and  
> databindings in apps would have to switch to using Haxe (as of  
> course would the app's AS files and the entire Flex framework).
>
> My advice is to avoid tying Flex to any proprietary Adobe technology  
> going forward -- whether AS4, V11, or V12  -- because Adobe's  
> language and platform strategy is no longer is alignment with what  
> Flex needs.
>
> - Gordon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Smith
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:28 AM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Flex 5 in haxe
>
>> Since Falcon has little support of MXML, I see we don't loose  
>> almost nothing.
>
> Given that Falcon can compile MXML apps like Checkinapp, I don't  
> think it's accurate to characterize its level of MXML support as  
> "little". My own characterization would be "80% complete". But  
> completing the other 20% is a daunting task ( it's certainly many  
> person-months of work) and not enough people are stepping up to  
> help. I'm guessing that this is because the major companies who used  
> to use Flex and swore that they had plenty of compiler engineers who  
> would help finish Falcon have moved on to other technologies.
>
> So I agree that any and all compiler technologies, including Haxe,  
> should get serious consideration.
>
> However, I think before Apache Flex makes a compiler decision, it  
> needs to decide what runtimes it is targeting. Move to V12? Abandon  
> Flash? Produce HTML/JS? Produce native iOS code? Produce native Java  
> for Android?
>
> - Gordon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: carlos.rovira@gmail.com [mailto:carlos.rovira@gmail.com] On  
> Behalf Of Carlos Rovira
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 2:49 AM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Flex 5 in haxe
>
> Hi,
>
> as we were discussing yesterday, there's room to a new Flex  
> framework written from scratch. As we don't want to rely in Adobe  
> technologies anymore we were talking about haxe. We can make it now  
> that work would be starting from zero.
>
> Haxe is a platform developed by Nicolas Canesse that made it's own  
> community. Nicolas is a genius of compilers. People coming from  
> Flash Open Source will remember MTASC compiler back in 2004-5. If  
> you search and investigate you will found that haxe is very powerful  
> and is "the great unknown technology".
>
> http://haxe.org/
>
> haxeNME is like Adobe AIR and seems to be more performant in iOS,  
> and Android (see  
> http://esdot.ca/site/2012/performance-showdown-starling-vs-nd2d-vs-genome2d-vs-haxe-nme).
> Supports as well Windows, Mac, Linux and BB.
>
> http://www.haxenme.org/
>
> There's an haxe plugin for IntelliJ. But in my test it seems that  
> only supports haxe and not NME yet.
>
> (Disclaimer: I'm to new to haxe and haxeNME and maybe I wrong making  
> some statements here).
>
> - Haxe is OOP and is "one language to rule them all" philoshopy.
>
> - Haxe compiler is better that the set provided by Adobe (I'm referring to
> AS3 legacy compiler. Falcon is new technology and maybe this is not  
> true. I does not have any info to make a comparision between falcon  
> and haxe compiler).
>
> - Haxe language is more evolved (maybe even Adobe AS4 will copy things from
> haxe...)
>
> - Haxe support HTML5/JS out of the box (but it seems to be in beta status).
>
> - There's a Starling port in haxe.
>
> Regarding Flex: haxe compiler could bring to flex things like *metadata
> evolution* or *AOP*. Adobe compiler will never get that evolution  
> since gamming is not focused in that kind of things...This is more  
> likely to see in haxe if Flex 5 works than expect it from Adobe.
>
> Drawbacks:
>
> IDE: IntelliJ+haxe plugin. IntelliJ is the best option for Flex, and  
> supports haxe, but I think haxeNME is not supported yet. But  
> IntelliJ guys are behind the plugin, so things could evolve ok in  
> this point.
>
> MXML: I think there's nothing like MXML in haxe today, and this is  
> one of the key points in Flex. We would need to put the efforts of  
> MXML in making it possible in haxe. We could talk with Nicolas  
> Canesse about this possibility. Since Falcon has little support of  
> MXML, I see we don't loose almost nothing.
>
> So my proposal is:
>
> * Start Flex 5 from scratch with haxe.
>
> * Use the Flex 4 API to model Flex 5 over haxe (as the first draft).
>
> * Start using Starling haxe library as the core displayobject API  
> (to be able to target Stage3D/Workers in  Flash).
>
> * Make an UIComponent decoupled implementation based on composition  
> over inheritance (here experience of Alex Harui and other will be  
> very wellcome to start with a good foundation).
>
> Optional:
>
> * Take into account the SWF and HTML5 outputs in the first drafts.
>
> This would start as an experiment based on fun of coding, and we  
> could see where it goes over time. If it gets momentum, people join  
> the cause, and so on...
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> Director de TecnologĂ­a
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> F:  +34 912 35 57 77
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> http://www.directwriter.es
> http://www.avant2.es
>

-- 
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com


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