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From: Gordon Smith <gosmith@adobe.com>
To: "flex-dev@incubator.apache.org" <flex-dev@incubator.apache.org>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 10:24:13 -0700
Subject: RE: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
Thread-Topic: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
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>> we are exploring options for tooling that would either ease or automate =
this transition.

> ...interesting and reassuring ... : tooling to ease transition from AS3 t=
o AS4.

You should not assume that any such tooling Adobe might produce would be an=
 automatic AS3 -> AS4 conversion tool. Now that AS4 has been defined, we kn=
ow that enough features have been removed from AS3 that any such automatic =
conversion to AS4 is impractical. The porting process requires some human i=
ntelliegence.

- Gordon

-----Original Message-----
From: s=E9bastien Paturel [mailto:sebpatu.flex@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 6:27 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: ASC 2.0 and Falcon

I did not even know that AS2 worked on AIR mobile :) What i was afraid of, =
was that AIR mobile had a different backward compatibility strategy than fl=
ash player on desktop has.
If not thats great news, and this ASNext, VMNext thing is not a survival su=
bject for flex, so thats great.

FYI, about AS2 on AIR Mobile i found this interresting statement from mike =
chambers:
"AIR apis are not exposed to AS2, but, you can run AS2 content by specifyin=
g the SWF in the application descriptor file and creating the AIR file with=
 ADT (in the AIR SDK)."

To complete Om's answer quoting Adobe's statements, i can also quote this o=
ne:
from http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html

"Compatibility

The next version of ActionScript will be an evolution of ActionScript 3, bu=
t in some instances may not be completely compatible with ActionScript 3. W=
e expect that any migration from ActionScript 3 will be significantly less =
burdensome than the move from ActionScript 2 to ActionScript 3.

Regardless, we are exploring options for tooling that would either ease or =
automate this transition.

Current ActionScript 3 content will continue to run in the Flash runtimes, =
although it may not run in the same virtual machine as the latest iteration=
 of ActionScript. This is a similar model for how ActionScript 2--based con=
tent runs in Flash Player today."

There's two things i found interresting and reassuring here:
- AS3 content will continue to run in the flash runtimeS (meaning new AIR m=
obile versions right? ;)).
- tooling to ease transition from AS3 to AS4.


Le 26/10/2012 23:36, Thibault Imbert a =E9crit :
> Hi Rick,
>
> Nope, think about when AS3 was introduced. Did your AS2 applications
> stopped working? No. Same thing here ;)
>
> We will share more about ASNext next year. I brought that up cause wanted
> to let you know guys the direction and set the right expectations. I hope
> that it is helpful.
>
> Thibault Imbert | sr. product manager gaming (Graphics, Language, VM,
> Compiler) | Monocle | adobe systems
> gaming.adobe.com <http://gaming.adobe.com/> | bytearray.org
> <http://bytearray.org/> | @thibault_imbert
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/26/12 2:29 PM, "Rick Winscot" <rick.winscot@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thibault,
>>
>> Does this mean when people download Flash Player when ASNext is
>> released... that they will be installing a 'package' that will run AS2,
>> AS3, and ASNext content?
>>
>> Some detail about the anticipated deployment strategy of ASNext would be
>> helpful for us to understand what the ultimate lifespan of Flex and
>> Flex-based applications is.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Rick Winscot
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 26, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Thibault Imbert wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sebastien,
>>>  =20
>>> Just to confirm. What this means is that you guys will be able to run
>>> Flex
>>> apps in the Flash Player in the next 5 years, same for AIR by using
>>> captive runtime. Again, to make things clear, this will possible cause
>>> you
>>> guys will be targeting AS3 and AS3 APIs.
>>>  =20
>>> To target ASNext and the new APIs, as I said before, you will have to
>>> use
>>> a Stage3D framework for UIs like Feathers or any other that may emerge
>>> in
>>> the future.
>>>  =20
>>> Thibault Imbert | sr. product manager gaming (Graphics, Language, VM,
>>> Compiler) | Monocle | adobe systems
>>> gaming.adobe.com <http://gaming.adobe.com/> | bytearray.org
>>> (http://bytearray.org)
>>> <http://bytearray.org/> | @thibault_imbert
>>>  =20
>>>  =20
>>>  =20
>>>  =20
>>>  =20
>>>  =20
>>> On 10/25/12 12:50 PM, "s=E9bastien Paturel" <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com
>>> (mailto:sebpatu.flex@gmail.com)> wrote:
>>>  =20
>>>> Yes thanks, but we need confirmation.
>>>> some can also argue that such an announcement can still leave room for
>>>> interpretation.
>>>>  =20
>>>> Adobe's representative also said that flex would be able to gain from
>>>> any enhancement made for gaming, but if flex needs to be ported to
>>>> ASNext for that, it turns out to be false statement. unless i get
>>>> something wrong.
>>>>  =20
>>>>  =20
>>>> Le 25/10/2012 21:44, charles.monteiro@gmail.com
>>> (mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com) a =E9crit :
>>>>> I had seen that before but had forgotten , thanks for pointing this
>>>>> out, so to summarize any 4.6 based apps will at the very least run
>>> on
>>>>> whatever runtimes are put out by adobe for the next 5 year's , that
>>>>> certainly allows for some time to figure out a forward path, pls
>>> correct
>>>>> if that's the wrong conclusion
>>>>>  =20
>>>>> Sent from my Virgin Mobile Android-Powered Device
>>>>>  =20
>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>> From: "Om" <bigosmallm@gmail.com (mailto:bigosmallm@gmail.com)>
>>>>> To: <flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> (mailto:flex-dev@incubator.apache.org)>
>>>>> Subject: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
>>>>> Date: Thu, Oct 25, 2012 3:08 pm
>>>>>  =20
>>>>>  =20
>>>>>  From the Adobe Flex Whitepapaper [1]
>>>>>  =20
>>>>> Adobe runtime support of Flex
>>>>>> Flash Player 11.2 and Adobe AIR 3.2, which are anticipated to
>>> ship in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> first quarter of 2012, will be tested with applications built
>>> using
>>>>>> Adobe
>>>>>> Flex 4.6. *Adobe will test future releases of Flash Player and AIR
>>>>>> against the Adobe Flex 4.6 SDK and maintain backwards
>>> compatibility for
>>>>>> five years.*
>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>  =20
>>>>>  =20
>>>>> [1] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/whitepapers/roadmap.html
>>>>>  =20
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Om
>>>>>  =20
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:03 PM, s=E9bastien Paturel
>>>>> <sebpatu.flex@gmail.com (mailto:sebpatu.flex@gmail.com)>wrote:
>>>>>  =20
>>>>>> Hi Thibault,
>>>>>> Thanks for the precision.
>>>>>> But one last info needed: will next AIR for mobile runtime will
>>> embed
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> the new vm? meaning that only ASNext projects will be able to run
>>> with
>>>>>> AIR
>>>>>> on new mobile devices / OS targetted by Adobe?
>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Seb
>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>> Le 25/10/2012 17:53, Thibault Imbert a =E9crit :
>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>> Hi Sebastien,
>>>>>>> To confirm, such a framework like Feathers or Starling would
>>> have to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> updated to ASNext to run on the new VM.
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>> Sent from mobile, please pardon brevity/errors.
>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>> From: s=E9bastien Paturel
>>>>>>> Sent: 10/25/2012 8:45 AM
>>>>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> (mailto:flex-dev@incubator.apache.org)
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: ASC 2.0 and Falcon
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>> In the short term, it will be needed by flex to run on VM3, to
>>> be able
>>>>>>> to create apps for new mobile hardware, and run better on retina
>>>>>>> Display.
>>>>>>> According to jonathan Campos, it is feasable to render flex sdk
>>> on
>>>>>>> starling for the next main release.
>>>>>>> And if i understand well what thibault said, we don't need
>>> anything
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> then that to run on next VM (for example no need to be AS4)
>>>>>>> "having a look at Feathers (work from Josh >Tynjala -
>>> feathersui.com (http://feathersui.com))
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> top of Starling, which will run beautifully in our next runtime"
>>>>>>> It still has to be confirmed, but it could be a good short term
>>>>>>> solution
>>>>>>> (still relying on Adobe's runtime), to let flex the time to do
>>> more
>>>>>>> deep
>>>>>>> mutli target long term changes, even if it means starting again
>>> from
>>>>>>> scratch.
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>> If the solution is to start over, it could be the perfect time
>>> to ask
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> AS3 is the better choice for a multi target language, and if
>>> flex
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> not leverage what has been done with haxe.
>>>>>>> thats the question i was asking to Alex (i was not meaning AS4)
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>> jangaroo is great, but only for JS transcompilation, and future
>>> flex
>>>>>>> will need to target more platforms, like Haxe does.
>>>>>>> i wonder how jangaroo resolved issues with AS3 to JS
>>> compilation, that
>>>>>>> haxe resolved by dropping the feature directly from the
>>> language?
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>> Le 25/10/2012 17:01, Kevin Newman a =E9crit :
>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>> On 10/18/12 7:28 PM, Gordon Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>>> Yes, the community has to figure out what the essence of
>>> Flex really
>>>>>>>>> is. To me, it's an rapid-development application framework,
>>> the
>>>>>>>>> combination of a procedural language with a declarative
>>> language,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> a widely-deployed runtime that can support RIAs. The
>>> runtime of the
>>>>>>>>> future for RIAs seems to be native code for mobile devices
>>> and
>>>>>>>>> HTML/Javascript for browser apps. The best procedural
>>> language is
>>>>>>>>> anything that can be compiled to these runtimes. MXML is a
>>> perfectly
>>>>>>>>> good declarative language for UIs.
>>>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>> Maybe the real discussion should be less about supporting
>>> AVM3 and
>>>>>>>> more about supporting a native compile framework - something
>>> like
>>>>>>>> haXe
>>>>>>>> NME maybe (already open source). How much of Adobe's LLVM
>>> based iOS
>>>>>>>> AOT source is open? (if any)
>>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>> http://www.haxenme.org/
>>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>> For Javascript, there's already Jangaroo (open source):
>>>>>>>> http://www.jangaroo.net/home/
>>>>>>>>  =20
>>>>>>>> Kevin N.