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From Omar Gonzalez <omarg.develo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Apache Flex roadmap page in the wiki [was: I was tired of waiting.]
Date Tue, 02 Oct 2012 01:53:36 GMT
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Blaine Bradbury
<blaine@blainebradbury.com>wrote:

> On the Roadmap issue:
>
> I think it would be EXTREMELY useful to have a device which could show the
> current (as close to the present knowledge as is really manageable)
> trajectory that the Apache Flex project is taking.  On any given day, there
> are folks hard at work contributing new things with the intention to finish
> them.  They may never do so.  In some cases, they may have
> expressed commitment in their own right... beyond any Apache requirement
> per se.  In other cases, the work could have a lot of support in the
> community and therefore pretty likely to move forward.
>
> Bottom line is that these ongoing efforts do tell a story and show a
> certain geographical map toward an apparent goal that is shaped as it
> happens.  I would love to see a Road map of this geography.  I would love
> to share this story with customers and colleagues.  I also believe that
> folks who wish simply to consume the software and develop applications out
> in the market place could use this type of tool.  And those folks on some
> level are the people who will give Apache Flex a future by keeping code in
> production in the market place... possibly providing jobs.
>
> A Road map shows details of roads in a handy overview where one can
> rationalize roads according to existing geography, yes?  A Road map is a
> device one might use to help one get from one place to another using roads.
>  The information in a Road map is only as good as it as at the time of
> publishing.  New Roads are created all the time.  New editions of a Road
> map are published to show changes.  In our case, the Road map could show
> intended paths... in italics or some such demarcation.  An idea list or a
> wish list sounds hypothetical, not intentional.
>
> Road map is easier to say than *"What we are planning to do at the moment
> before we individually or collectively decide to change our minds List."*
>  But
> I do think this disclaimer could be in nice obvious print just below the
> heading :)
>
> Also to note.  The content of the Road map will not magically post itself
> somewhere, and it will probably have little value unless people contribute
> or share.  This is very much like the rest of the Apache Flex ideal, yes?
>  The folks who have wanted a Road map have only asked that it be allowed to
> exist if they create it, so that they might try to make it work.  The more
> obvious things being worked on are mostly likely the content targets
> anyhow.  A single source for logging feature progress and showing revision
> history is just easier for some than weeding through mountains of e-mail
> and monthly status summaries.  Why not allow them to put a page up and
> status how they see fit.  If it sucks... kill it later.
>
> Lastly, I like the term "Road map", but I understand the objections.  I am
> also very protective of language that might be under attack.  Corporate
> america does not get to monopolize the term and force the image of
> stressful project management and quarterly timelines onto the term for the
> rest of us unless we let them.
>
> bb


The "Roadmap" changed to
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Status+of+Project

As you can see it is not very populated, my guess would be that Apache Flex
volunteers/committers are busy working on things that are of their
interest, which is not to try and compile and maintain a Roadmap that
nobody is going to adhere to.

We've had this discussion ad nauseam, I think it basically boils down to a
couple of things:
1.) This is a volunteer based project, people are in and out of this
project, so it is very difficult to either a.) agree to a "roadmap" and b.)
keep some web page updated with information regarding what everyone is
doing.

2.) The consensus has pretty much been against the creation of a roadmap
page due to #1 as well as other things, such as the stigma you alluded to
that has been established as the expectations for a roadmap.

You stated it yourself, "The content of the Road map will not magically
post itself somewhere, and it will probably have little value unless people
contribute or share", and as you can see by the Status of Project page, no
one is updating it even tho we've agreed not to call it Roadmap but still
have the type of information people are looking for in a "roadmap". The
truth of the matter is when people volunteer their time to the project they
want to work on what interests them, I would put my money on that most of
the committers would rather be coding and getting things done as opposed to
trying to keep up some roadmap/status page.

If people really want to know what's going on just check out the repository
and look through the project history. Or they could search through the mail
archives, it sounds shitty but that's just the way it is.

Bottom line is there seems to be very little interest in maintaing a web
page, and much more interest in just getting shit done. In an ideal world
we would have all the time in the world to maintain roadmaps and status
pages and contribute to the project etc etc, but we don't have all that
time and so people will continue to just work on stuff they want to. When
that stuff is ready they can move it from their whiteboards or personal
repositories/forks and submit them as patches.

As Nike would say... Just do it.

Omar Gonzalez
s9tpepper@apache.org
Apache Flex PPMC

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