Mailing-List: contact flex-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of flexcapacitor@gmail.com
 designates 209.85.214.175 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <9C42B6DF-BBAA-40EE-BD22-0FF7E34D4E52@adobe.com>
References: <1334683836.40303.YahooMailNeo@web130104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<CAB9EJuw2UfNGCgQMSCDa4J4h52cL7x0ekHU97VJFyy6b9hNfJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<9C42B6DF-BBAA-40EE-BD22-0FF7E34D4E52@adobe.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 02:13:17 -0500
Message-ID: 
 <CANcBHECg4=DDcB0Asi65MR2LZ39Jfj7Kzx5aieM4iEhe2Ft6fw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bay area folks and flash
From: jude <flexcapacitor@gmail.com>
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444e8e9224c8f04bdeeca92

--f46d0444e8e9224c8f04bdeeca92
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Mike,

>From the newsletter, "Those of you who attended our meeting on April 16
were struck by Lee Brimelow's emphatic exhortation to ActionScript and Flex
programmers: 'If you want to continue to earn a living, you MUST get your
head out of the sand and learn about HTML5.'"

We know what it is and what it does. In fact I was at an HTML5 conference
last weekend to see if anything had changed. Do you know what *the
speakers*said about JavaScript and HTML5? It's a fundamentally flawed
environment.
*They *said that. These weren't Flash developers. They said what we all
already know. They said Google, who has their own browser (so they would
know right?), is well aware that it's flawed which is why they were working
on Dart. But Dart is a lost cause as well because it has to compile down to
again, a "fundamentally flawed environment". There weren't any Flash
developers there except the one or two I knew and they didn't say anything.
They mentioned a lot of neat features spread broadly across browsers that
would be nice to have one day. BTW These were developers from every
background and all looking for answers.

I humbly disagree with you. HTML5 is not the answer or an alternative for
Flash. It has major cross browser issues, bogs down on basic animations
when it works and it renders and behaves differently in every browser.
There's no substitute. Effectively, you're abandoning your Flash and Flex
developers and their clients. What are we supposed to do? HTML5 is not the
answer.

You said, "...winning back trust and credibility was a long term process,
one that basically involved us being clear and open about our plans..."
That's not going to win back trust or credibility. When you take into
account how your plans affect us, your customers and our clients and your
business partners (RIM, Facebook, any anyone's that uses or relies on the
Flash Player) and make decisions that protect all of our interests and
future as well then you'll have it.

When you say "we're not going to talk about Flex anymore", "HTML5 is a
better long term choice than Flash", "we're not developing mobile Flash"
you make a huge impact on all of the developers and businesses using your
technology. You've put some of them out of business by simple PR mistakes
(you still haven't fired or hired a PR team???) and by your current stance
on Flash and HTML5 and your current pigeon holed marketing you've called
all of our judgement into question because we chose and recommended Flash.
That marketing or lack of marketing directly affects us.

Judah Frangipane

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Mike Chambers <mchamber@adobe.com> wrote:

> I understand that there is still frustration around all of this, but
> mischaracterizing what we said doesn't help anyone.
>
> In regards to HTML5, we said that Flash is really good at a lot of things
> (animations, apps, video, casual games, branding experiences, art) and that
> you could continue to use Flash for this type of content. But, increasingly
> over the next couple of years, more and more of this type of stuff is going
> to be done directly in the browser.  It is in your interest to at least
> have a basic understand of the capabilities of HTML5, because your clients
> ARE going to ask you about. Whether you actually learn and use it is up to
> you and your individual projects, but it is in your interest to at least
> understand the capabilities.
>
> As far as the question of "how do we tell our managers that Flash isnt
> dead, or that Flash is the best choice for a project", you need to talk
> about the realities, which includes discussion technical details such as
> player penetration, Flash on mobile, alternative, and development costs.
>  Again, this is something that you have to decide on a case by case basis,
> and in same cases Flash is NOT the best choice.
>
> We did acknowledge communication missteps in Novemeber. However, I did not
> say it would not happen again. I did say that we have taken steps
> internally and externally to try and ensure that we communicate clearer and
> more effectively and ensure that internally teams are considering community
> and developer needs when making these types of decisions.
>
> I also said that winning back trust and credibility was a long term
> process, one that basically involved us being clear and open about our
> plans, and then doing those plans. Basically, we have to tell you what we
> plan to do, and then do it. Even then some people are still not going to
> put their faith in us. We get it, we have to just move forward and try to
> be open about what we are doing.
>
> Again, I understand the frustration, but mischaracterizing the discussion
> really doesn't help anyone. It only makes it more difficult for people to
> understand what Adobe is doing and why.
>
> mike chambers
>
> mesh@adobe.com
>
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Tony Constantinides wrote:
>
> >   I was there. Basically Adobe confirmed there moving ahead with Flash on
> > Gaming and video (in that order)
> > Lots of new functionality coming out for gaming, with video they
> > concentrating on the big media companies and there needs and screw the
> > little guy.
> >    I understand the direction there going and they may be successful, but
> > they stated that they cannot please everyone and have to make decisions
> to
> > move ahead. Translation: We reserve the right to screw the community if
> > money is involved.
> >  There acknowledge that they miscommunciated before and claim it will not
> > happen again. Umm, ok.
> >    They also stated that too many Flash and Flex guys have there head in
> > the sand and now need to learn HTML 5.0 as they see a "huge
> oppourtunity".
> > I noticed they did not mention Flex anymore. My take on all this is sell
> > your Adobe shares while there stil over $30.
> >   Many developers ask how they will expalin to their managers that Flash
> > is not dead. Adobe mumbled something about "technical choice" and
> > "alternatives". Its pretty clear that the engineers at Adobe have NEVER
> had
> > to explain to non-technical clients about technical direction. They left
> it
> > to consultants, and exsaperated employees of smal companies. I can only
> > shake my head. It sounds like 10 year olds saying "people will play with
> me
> > if I still cool".Umm, ok.
> >   They mention there not going to compete with Unity in the gaming field,
> > but now they impose this "charge" on high-end gaming because gaming
> > companies say "we do not feel your heart in it, if Adobe is not making
> > money on Flash". I see the logic, and Adobe should make money.
> > I hope that works out for them. I cannot see how though.
> > I moving on to Android development in Java and so are many of the Flex
> > guys there. What happens to Adobe, I could not care less. I already sold
> my
> > shares. Just my 2 cents....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Ariel Jakobovits <arieljake@yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> anyone in the bay area attend the future of flash event last night at
> >> adobe?
> >> wondering what was said.
> >>
> >> Ariel Jakobovits
> >> Email: arieljake@yahoo.com
> >> Phone: 650-690-2213
> >> Fax: 650-641-0031
> >> Cell: 650-823-8699
> >>
>
>

--f46d0444e8e9224c8f04bdeeca92--