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From jude <flexcapaci...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Creating Working Groups [Was: Apache Flex suggestion - dumping SWF support in favor of HTML5 - listen to Steve]
Date Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:25:13 GMT
I should have prefaced that with "rant". The thing is it isn't just the
source code. It's the previous Adobe Flex project and now it's the Apache
Flex project. It's the early stages of the project and there are people
that want to help set it up, to take time out of their day, to make more
accessible to themselves and others in the future.

So they want to help but they can't. And they get exhausted and they get
deterred and they try to explain this and they get deterred again. :P

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Martin Heidegger <mh@leichtgewicht.at>wrote:

> Right about now we should all be feeling like we bark at the wrong tree.
> Perhaps we should leave apache alone and bother it just with stuff that is
> related to source code and nothing else. I am fine with that! Perhaps
> Spoon.as might jump in and provide a community/networking service? Anyone
> from Spoon reading?
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
>
> On 07/02/2012 03:53, jude wrote:
>
>> I understand completely. I'm not a commiter and I feel like I can't do
>> anything.
>>
>> We need a wiki that allows people to contribute to it, we need a blog
>> updated so people can stay up to date without being on the mailing list,
>> we
>> need a FAQ to answer questions we've had before, we need to allow
>> non-commiters to have white boards to start projects and contribute code
>> to
>> work with teams (not a limited Jira ticket), we need roadmaps and
>> directions and plans and project descriptions and use cases. The no
>> roadmap
>> thing is confusing. We need them and good planning and organization. If
>> you
>> don't finish it on time or no one works on it then so what. It's an open
>> source project. People can ask why and figure out what needs to happen to
>> make it work.
>>
>> We need to allow the community to help instead of deter them every time
>> someone offers a way to make it easier for them to help.
>>
>> 2012/2/6 Frédéric Thomas<webdoublefx@hotmail.com**>
>>
>>  Hi Arnoud,
>>>
>>> I aggree, I'm not a commiter but I followed the ML from the start and I'm
>>> starting to feel frustrated because not many things have been started,
>>> ok,
>>> we haven't got any test framework at the moment and the JIRA is not
>>> completly imported yet, but still, let's start something, at least to
>>> avoid
>>> that the community to be sucks by this slow process of putting everything
>>> in place, I'm sure many people wants to start something but they can't
>>> because they're not commiters and the process to skim the all ML to find
>>> pieces of conversions about the subjects they interrested too is just a
>>> pain.
>>>
>>> The idea of a wiki where folks can pick up informations on what is going
>>> on in term of sub-projects, roadmap, staters or whatever you want to call
>>> it, and proposed by the commiters, is a good starting point to go
>>> further,
>>> like that, if they adhere to it and they've got the opportunity to
>>> propose
>>> their contribution on the particular topics they like, this will
>>> re-inflated their heart and faith around of Flex, for now, I feel like
>>> being handcuffed because nothing is done for us in order to participate,
>>> I
>>> started things on my side, but without the possibility of sharing ideas
>>> or
>>> code on a particular topic in a dedicated place is very frustrating.
>>>
>>> Many subject of developement have been discussed and not all of them are
>>> in whiteboards or wiki at the moment, many of them have just been left
>>> out
>>> or are still in argumentation if we should or not develop it, even if
>>> it's
>>> good to talk with everyone about a direction to take and realized early
>>> if
>>> things are not good at all or simply don't federate anyone, it seems to
>>> be
>>> a stopper because you haven't got anything except the ML and the
>>> whiteboard.
>>>
>>> For exemple, I started to explore the possibilities to split the
>>> UIComponent in beharviors, given the subject is interesting and has been
>>> launched few weeks ago, now I've got my code (not finished yet), but I
>>> can't see anyone and no places where to discussed the topic or the code,
>>> worst, the people who launched the subject and were interested to do
>>> something, doesn't communicate on it anymore, a wiki page or a blog would
>>> have been a good place for those who wanted to be involved.
>>>
>>> An early involvement of the community is nescessary IMO unless you want
>>> to
>>> let the enthusiasm fall back.
>>>
>>>
>>> An other point as well, time ago, in the ML, we talked about to use the
>>> wiki to show to people how to build the sdk, do a mavenization and so on,
>>> nothing happened, not even with that. Is it possibile to do it now we've
>>> got a wiki ?
>>>
>>> (Sorry for my english, I hope I've been be clear enough anyway)
>>>
>>> -----Message d'origine----- From: Arnoud Bos
>>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:48 PM
>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Creating Working Groups [Was: Apache Flex suggestion -
>>> dumping SWF support in favor of HTML5 - listen to Steve]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2012, at 5:03 PM, João Saleiro wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 06-02-2012 15:44, Jonathan Campos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Wouldn't that fit better in the whiteboard folder? Or maybe if we set
>>>>> up
>>>>> a
>>>>> wiki by whiteboard folder I would be okay with that.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I like this idea a lot
>>>
>>> It would be great if people could have a standard public wiki page
>>> connected to their whiteboard where they can write:
>>> - what they are doing,
>>> - who is doing it,
>>> - why they are doing it,
>>> - and their short term / long term plans,
>>> - tell about the state of their code (usable, pre-alpha),
>>> - basically anything they want to share.
>>>
>>> This page would be editable by the whiteboard owner without having to go
>>> through voting stuff, consensus etc on what they want to write there.
>>> that's why it's a white board.....
>>>
>>> a) It could prevent duplicate efforts of solving issues and
>>> b) it might be easier help to bring people with the same expertise
>>> together creating better solutions.
>>>
>>> Of course it NOT be obligatory to maintain such a page for each
>>> whiteboard, but offering the possibility to do seems great.
>>>
>>> Then a central wiki page that links to the different whiteboard wiki
>>> pages
>>> that have been created could help anyone interested to get a quick
>>> view on what's going on in the project.
>>>
>>> This seems much more accessible to me than a high traffic mailinglist or
>>> checking out the trunk and wading trough the code to maybe find something
>>> of interest for you.
>>>
>>> Example: i checked out the whiteboards and see that Tink is doing some
>>> great work on navigators
>>> and layouts. For people just browsing trough the wiki this could be
>>> valueable info.
>>>
>>>
>>>  My issue is the
>>>
>>>> "officialness" of a wiki saying "this is what we are doing in this way"
>>>>>
>>>>>  Yes, that's more or less a step towards of what I mean. A wiki per
>>>> whiteboard folder would help. And when someone suggests having "feature
>>>> X"
>>>> added to Flex, either we explain how can that person create a whiteboard
>>>> folder, or we indicate the url of the wiki of an existing whiteboard
>>>> folder
>>>> (instead of just answering  "I agree", "I disagree").
>>>> I think there should be a base structure for each wiki, that indicates
>>>> motivation for that feature, short roadmap, people involved, etc.
>>>>
>>>> And I completely agree with your concerns of the "officialness" of a
>>>> wiki. We should list existing initiatives, but they cannot be
>>>> communicated
>>>> them as "official" directions.
>>>>
>>>> João Saleiro
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Met vriendelijke groet,
>>>
>>> Arnoud Bos
>>> Artim interactive
>>>
>>> E  arnoud@artim-interactive.nl
>>> W  www.artim-interactive.nl
>>> T  +31 6 246 40 216
>>> A  Elisabeth Wolffstraat 77-3
>>>  1053TT Amsterdam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

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