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From Xuefeng Wu <ben...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Deleting user from access pool
Date Thu, 01 Oct 2009 08:18:43 GMT
We can do this: message.setVisible(false) [?]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org> wrote:

> OK, I transitioned from talking about deleting messages from a mailbox
> to deleting messages from the DB, but you get the point. There are
> other actions, which are associated with receiving messages in a
> mailbox, which are not reversible- sending email, sending an http post
> request...
>
> I'm also using interchangeable mailbox, inbox and timeline here.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org> wrote:
> > There are counterexamples- when you send out an email, it's in the
> > inbox of the people you have sent it to and you cannot delete it. When
> > you send a message in an instant messaging client, you cannot get it
> > back. In the context of JIRA, the item can still change after
> > permission is denied to you, while the message cannot be reedited in
> > ESME.
> >
> > I'm with Dick here. The performance problem is that the stream of
> > messages is updated in near real-time and any deleted messages will
> > cause a cascade of changes across the inboxes of all users who have
> > linked this message.
> >
> > I think we discussed deleting messages before, not in the context of
> > this pool, and David strongly favored the opinion that messages should
> > be immutable- once they're sent, that's it. Deleting messages also
> > poses security/consistency issues with possible federation scenarios,
> > which David intended to implement.
> >
> > There are many many other inconsistency issues which could arise if we
> > start deleting messages. Take for example, resending. If a resent
> > message is deleted, do you delete it from the inboxes of all your
> > followers? And if it's a popular resent message, do you delete it from
> > the stats actor? Do you reevaluate all the statistics for resent
> > messages then? What if the message contains tags, do you reevaluate
> > the tag cloud? What if it contains links, which are in the popular
> > links stats? What if the message is part of a conversation, do you
> > delete the whole conversation?
> >
> > So in the end, the immutability of messages and timelines is already
> > deeply ingrained in the ESME architecture and is not subject to
> > change- even if we decide that it's wise to do so, which I think it's
> > not. It's far from a trivial change.
> >
> > Vassil
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Xuefeng Wu <benewu@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> If user could not see any message from a pool which he/she leave, even
> >> his/her message, What will happen?
> >> In a company, If some one leave a team/project/department, he/she may be
> >> could not read any document even he/she write.
> >>
> >> The messages are also some resource for a team/project/department, I
> think
> >> it's fine that do not allow users can not read any messages in the pool.
> >>
> >> Think about jira, if you create a issue(task, defects) and the
> permission
> >> said only team members.
> >> And if you leave the team, you can not read the issue anymore.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Regarding the first part (deleting users from a pool) - here are my
> ideas
> >>> * We have no idea whether he has viewed the messages or not.
> >>> * Of course, he should be able to continue see his own messages even
> >>> if they were sent to a pool to which he no longer belongs.
> >>> * The user's messages remain in the pool whether or not the user is in
> the
> >>> pool.
> >>> * Since the user can no longer view the pool, he can only view his own
> >>> messages but not those of other users.
> >>> * Question: Should we delete all old messages from the pool to which
> >>> the user was a member or should we just prevent new messages from the
> >>> now-forbidden pool going to the user. I prefer the second choice.
> >>>
> >>> Thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> To the second point regarding the deletion of pools. I think this
> >>> needs more thought. We can't / shouldn't delete messages from closed
> >>> pools. This would be a performance and programming nightmare.
> >>>
> >>> D.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Xuefeng Wu <benewu@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > There're two features:1. delete users from pool;
> >>> > 2. delete pool.
> >>> >
> >>> > There're some argue and my opinion:
> >>> > *when delete users from pool.*
> >>> > We could withdraw all messages from the user, whatever read or
> unread.
> >>> >
> >>> > *when delete pool. ESME-68*
> >>> > withdraw all messages
> >>> > can create new pool which have the same name as deleted
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> > Should we allow for a user to be deleted from an access pool?
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > If yes what happens? Does he no longer have access to the
messages
> in
> >>> >> > the pool - irregardless of whether he wrote them or not?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> It should be possible to delete a user, yes. I think it has been
> >>> >> discussed or specified in the requirements pdf that once a message
> is
> >>> >> in the user's mailbox, it stays there, so that's how it works now.
> At
> >>> >> any rate, deleting a message from the mailbox, which the user may
> have
> >>> >> already seen doesn't offer any more security. A user also doesn't
> see
> >>> >> messages in his/her mailbox, which were sent before he was added
to
> >>> >> the pool.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The interesting part is what happens if a pool has been removed
and
> >>> >> whether it should be possible at all. This could pose a security
> >>> >> problem if an impostor creates a pool with the same name (similar
to
> >>> >> what might happen with a deleted user account)
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > Global R&D Center,Shanghai China,Carestream Health, Inc.
> >>> > Tel:(86-21)3852 6101
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Global R&D Center,Shanghai China,Carestream Health, Inc.
> >> Tel:(86-21)3852 6101
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Global R&D Center,Shanghai China,Carestream Health, Inc.
Tel:(86-21)3852 6101

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