incubator-esme-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Anne Kathrine Petteroe <>
Subject Re: Nobody from the ASF is helping (ESME) sustain or build momentum or community
Date Sun, 03 May 2009 20:30:15 GMT
Could we please stop this discussion now and refocus on how we can  
build a stronger community around ESME instead?

Some of us, me included, might have had expectations on what ASF could  
do for us in terms of building a community.
The ASF tag hasn't helped me as much as I thought it would, I still  
meet developers/managers who haven't even heard of the Apache  
It has taken me three presentations in my company alone just to  
explain to them what we are doing, and why they should free up time  
and money for me to work on ESME. (which they have agreed to) Coming  
from the enterprise world, building an open source community has  
definitely not been as easy as I thought it would be, not quite sure  
where to start since I cannot start with committing code.

David told the group some months ago he wouldn't be able to lead ESME  
any longer, so his (low) level of contribution was expected.
At the same time I knew leading a project like this without developers  
would be tough, so I wanted to take it easy for a while to see if  
David would be able to free some time for ESME again once the book was  

Hope there is a way we can all work *together* on this again..


On 3. mai. 2009, at 20.25, Gianugo Rabellino wrote:

> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 8:18 PM, David Pollak
> <> wrote:
>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Gianugo Rabellino <
>>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:54 PM, David Pollak
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>>>> <>wrote:
>>>> I expect real analysis and work on the part of the ASF.  This is  
>>>> the kind
>>> of
>>>> value that the ESME project needs.  Are my expectations way out  
>>>> of line?
>>> Yes. What you can expect from the ASF (the project mentors,  
>>> actually),
>>> on top of logistics and legal, is pull, not push. Ask questions, get
>>> answers. Mentors' mileage may vary, but we are here to steward and
>>> advise, not to have a (pro)active role. Unless we want, as  
>>> volunteers,
>>> do so.
>>> That's a realistic expectation. Now, if you want to get more, you
>>> might want to show some of you "experience in building open source
>>> communities" and steer clear from bossing us.
>> Okay... this series of posts from you is the first in the ESME  
>> community.
> Do your homework, next time?
> msg00617.html
> I would also note that the role of a mentor is staying out of the way
> as much as possible, jumping in only when there is a chance of lines
> being crossed?
>> And... you started off by being rather obnoxious to me.  Now you're  
>> accusing
>> me of bossing.
> Hey - I didn't quite started it. It was you throwing mud on your blog
> first, then asking for this, and that and that again from mentors
>>  In terms of my experience building communities, I helped
>> build the NextStep community in the early 90's.  I build the Mesa  
>> community
>> (50K users strong) and Mesa still runs as a code base today and  
>> there are
>> still active users.  More recently, I helped build the Scala  
>> community and I
>> have built the Lift community.  I have also participated in the ESME
>> community for going on 10 months now and contributed > 50% of the  
>> code in
>> the code base.  I was also the one that made the introduction for  
>> the ESME
>> community to the ASF.
> Good for you. Do you really want this to degenerate into a "mine is
> longer than yours" fight? I couldn't care less about your track record
> - I will still call Bovine Stercus any time I feel the stink, and both
> your blog post and your unrealistic expectations are clearly in that
> direction.
> Have fun,
> -- 
> Gianugo Rabellino
> M: +44 779 5364 932 / +39 389 44 26 846
> Sourcesense - making sense of Open Source:

View raw message