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From David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: The current state of ESME
Date Mon, 02 Mar 2009 17:25:45 GMT
On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Erik Engbrecht <erik.engbrecht@gmail.com>wrote:

> >
> > I catch myself equating the desire to *contribute* to ESME as a
> > function of the desire to *use* ESME. In order for more people to use
> > ESME, it's necessary (but not sufficient) more people to know about
> > it.
>
>
> Yes, absolutely.
>
>
> > Another thing we should avoid is branding ESME as strictly for the
> > Enterprise. It might have been beneficial before the preparation for
> > the SAP Demo Jams, but now there's a much wider user base. There might
> > be users who could be put off if they feel anyone not in the
> > enterprise category cannot benefit fully from what ESME has to offer.
>
>
> As a potential enterprise customer, this sentiment worries me greatly.  In
> my mind the singular killer feature of ESME is the enterprise focus.
>  Things
> that detract from that, like emphasizing OpenId for authentication rather
> than more enterprisey methods like Kerberos or (**shudder**) NTLM.
>
> I say stick to your roots and make sure you do it well.  Right now the
> business case for microblogging in the enterprise is clear as mud.  I think
> it could be made if it was effectively blended into existing infrastructure
> in a way that's likely to produce value added communication rather than the
> sometimes amusing line noise produced by services like Twitter.


Focus is good.  Focusing on Enterprise is of high value.  I'm with Erik on
his comments.


>
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Vassil Dichev <vdichev@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Still more thoughts coming up, but first the response to Bertrand.
> >
> > > Note that I know very little about the overall ESME context, feel free
> > > to slap me with a trout if there's too much sillyness below ;-)
> >
> > Actually these are very valid points. We would benefit enormously from
> > this type of input, so feel free to add more, noone could slap you
> > with anything :)
> >
> > > You mentioned http://laconi.ca/trac/ - If I go there I immediately see
> > > a boilerplate description of what that is and does:
> >
> > Also a very apt comparison, since I think laconi.ca is the most
> > similar project to what ESME does.
> >
> > > What's the scope of ESME? Server, client, RESTful API? How does ESME
> > > compare with and play with other microblogging platforms? Can you say
> > > that in 100 words on the ESME website?
> >
> > If we can't explain something in simple terms, we don't understand it
> > ourselves either :)
> >
> > > That's problem 1 I think: making it easy for potential users and
> > > contributors to decide whether ESME is for them. That should not take
> > > more than 10 minutes, people are lazy.
> >
> > I would even strive for 2 minutes. It's an easy enough concept.
> >
> > I catch myself equating the desire to *contribute* to ESME as a
> > function of the desire to *use* ESME. In order for more people to use
> > ESME, it's necessary (but not sufficient) more people to know about
> > it.
> >
> > I think one of the best steps for ESME to catch on was to become
> > open-source, and also becoming part of Apache. I also knew it wouldn't
> > be an easy transition as it loses its umbilical cord to SAP.
> >
> > Once we have a functional release, we should announce it- but not any
> > earlier. If people don't like what we see, they might not look back. I
> > intend to notify e.g. the folks from the Java Posse podcast so they
> > can announce the release of ESME in their next podcast, but if they do
> > it now, it would probably do more harm than good.
> >
> > Another thing we should avoid is branding ESME as strictly for the
> > Enterprise. It might have been beneficial before the preparation for
> > the SAP Demo Jams, but now there's a much wider user base. There might
> > be users who could be put off if they feel anyone not in the
> > enterprise category cannot benefit fully from what ESME has to offer.
> >
> > I think ESME is different than laconi.ca, in that it focuses on
> > scalability in a way few other microblogging platforms have (Twitter
> > is using Scala to solve their performance problems). Using actions
> > currently it is also much easier for the power user to reroute and
> > process messages, which would otherwise need setup of additional tools
> > (if they exist at all).
> >
> > ESME needs a killer feature. There are  a couple of scenarios where
> > ESME could be seen as superior. Example: there was a case in my
> > current job where our distributed team was having daily instant
> > messaging sessions. The problem was anyone who wasn't there couldn't
> > see what the others have been discussing, so we had to save the chat
> > sessions, and it wasn't very straightforward to make them available
> > publically. This was a good case for me to propose Yammer. We tried
> > it, and when the team lead noticed the message shows in the others'
> > timeline in more than 10-15 seconds, he rejected Yammer as not fast
> > enough. This was a perfect opportunity to promote ESME! Due to comet,
> > it updates instantly.
> >
> > Another thing ESME is better in, is notifications for different
> > server-side events. For instance, Darren has contributed code to send
> > a status to ESME when an exception comes to the SAP log viewer
> > service. It could easily send messages when a build finishes. It would
> > also be ideal for a front end of different system event notifications
> > a-la Nagios.
> >
> > There are a lot of use cases which capitalize on ESME's real-time
> > responsiveness: problem solving when supporting a technical issue,
> > development discussions, or just plain chat.
> >
> > Finally, I'm certainly not worried about Scala being popular or not.
> > If Twitter has an interest in Scala, then we aren't likely to be on
> > the wrong track. If anything, it lets us be more productive with less
> > developers ;-) For instance, once I knew how I wanted to implement the
> > Twitter-compatible RESTful API, I managed to put a new feature by
> > coding for half an hour every couple of days. Also, remember the speed
> > with which David managed to assemble a working ESME for the Demo Jam
> > (though I must attribute this to David's experience and great vision
> > as well).
> >
> > Vassil
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://erikengbrecht.blogspot.com/
>



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