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From "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bleeker.T...@mayo.edu>
Subject RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
Date Fri, 14 Sep 2012 14:32:00 GMT
Everything you experienced then was either forced in by NCI, like "child pages" sections, or
has an alternative, like you can have any order you want. I can tell you about each alternative
if you want and others would like to hear.

All web sites are mostly a web of connections, however, I believe that one with a hierarchical
structure behind it (even if not shown to the end users) produces a better result. Things
don't get missed as often.

Thanks
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-387-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-387-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org]
On Behalf Of Masanz, James J.
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:19 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release. 

My only experience with contributing to a Confluence wiki has been the NCI one. 

A few of the things I don't like about the NCI Confluence wiki
  the "Child pages" sections
  that there is a heirachy view

I think of Wikis as more of a web of connections between pages instead of an outline.

Besides not liking having a heirachy of pages in general, I didn't like the way pages were
ordered in lists with the most recent pages appearing at the bottom such as:

 cTAKES 1.2.2 Developer Install Instructions  ... (many pages listed in between here) ...
 cTAKES 2.5 Developer Install Instructions  cTAKES 2.6 Component Use Guide  cTAKES 2.6 User
Install Instructions  cTAKES 2.6 Developer Install Instructions

I would like to see the pages listed with the most recent release's information listed first.

These are just my preferences.

Regards,
James Masanz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-386-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-386-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg]
> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Sorry, I was unaware of the conversation that happened in INFRA-5158. 
> That plus the email below brings up some questions for me.
> 
> I've been down this road a number of times. My vote would be to never 
> distribute the documentation with a release. In a world where the 
> cTAKES users must have an Internet connection to obtain cTAKES then 
> they have always shown to use that connection while developing. 
> Meaning they can always get to the documentation when needed. If you 
> ship it in a release you put out copies that you cannot change without 
> more work. As fixes happen in documentation too, you can more easily 
> make sure the next developer does not hit the same documentation issue 
> if you fix the only copy there is - the online one.
> 
> Why put ourselves through yet another migration, Confluence to 
> MoinMoin, if we don't need the export?
> 
> We are in charge of the navigation in Confluence. James, what is it 
> that does not work for you? If you're basing your opinion on the 
> current site, it has had navigational items forced into it by NCI. I 
> like Confluence better than, for example, MediaWiki because it forces 
> the developer to think about the logical structure of the site, allows 
> the users to be in control of navigation (the tree on the left can be 
> on/off), and (except at NCI where it is now) an administrator can 
> change the look (CSS underneath it). Maybe Apache does not allow their CWIKI look to
change. Anyone know?
> 
> Admittedly I don't know anything about MoinMoin yet, but has anyone 
> experience with things like the editor? Confluence's is nice. Search? 
> How about managing uploaded files? Just a little digging reveals that 
> underneath MoinMoin is yet another syntax, close but not the same as 
> Confluence.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg]
> On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:57 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Its nice to include the documentation in the distribution of the 
> release, but that will likely not work as easily when they disable the 
> export feature of Confluence.
> 
> Jörn
> 
> On 09/14/2012 12:23 AM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > I see there was an INFRA JIRA issue opened for creating a cwiki but 
> > then closed until we decide if we really want to go with Confluence.
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow how INFRA-5185's description of having export 
> > turned off in December will affect us.
> > I was assuming we would not export anything from an apache-hosted 
> > wiki to anywhere else.
> > Did I misunderstand the point raised in INFRA-5185 or was someone 
> > planning to export out of an apache-hosted wiki
> >
> > I'm not a fan of the look of and the navigation through Confluence 
> > pages. And I like the idea of flat files that moin uses rather than 
> > a database but I'm no wiki engine expert.
> >
> > I therefore suggest we go with moin.
> >
> > -- James
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache
> > .o
> > rg
> > ]
> >> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:13 PM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load.
> > Too
> >> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
> > amount
> >> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems 
> >> like
> > a
> >> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
> >>
> >> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering 
> >> if
> > we
> >> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not 
> >> then
> > I
> >> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
> >>
> >> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we 
> >> are still waiting on our corporate CLA.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Troy
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache
> > .o
> > rg
> >> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
> >> section within General:
> >> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >>
> >> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile 
> >> Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to
> > have
> >> things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  
> >> We
> > also
> >> seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it 
> >> would
> > be a
> >> good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating 
> >> content from existing sources.)
> >> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if 
> >> someone
> > had
> >> experience with this help us out in this area...
> >>
> >> --Pei
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just 
> >> the list of components. The current site starts with an overview 
> >> and then branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES 
> >> Apache site
> >> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a
> > Getting
> >> Started link and then each of the releases?
> >>
> >> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES
> > already
> >> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. 
> >> Why create a 3rd documentation location?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Troy
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache
> > .o
> > rg
> >> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb
> > about
> >> each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
> >> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
> >>
> >> --Pei
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> +1 for Wiki
> >>
> >> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then
> > link
> >> to the Wiki, right?
> >>
> >> -- James
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
> >>> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> >>> 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> > Pei
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
> >>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>>
> >>> Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
> >>> Staging Preview:
> >>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >>>
> >>> Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
> >> documentation to
> >>> supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
> >> edit/maintain
> >>> for technical documentation for each of the components...
> >>> CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
> >>>
> >>> --Pei


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