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From Robert Newson <rnew...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
Date Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:11:18 GMT
Not as yet, it's more a recognition that we should work on it than a
full-fledged solution. Why not start a thread with some ideas?

B.

On 18 April 2012 14:06, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
> Ok thanks. Is there any details on what "Simpler Querying" on the roadmap list might
mean?
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Newson [mailto:rnewson@apache.org]
> Sent: 18 April 2012 14:02
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>
> I don't see UNQL appearing on CouchDB's roadmap.
>
> B.
>
> On 18 April 2012 13:44, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
>> One thing I did not see on the roadmap was UNQL:
>>
>> Is this covered by  Simpler Querying?
>> Is UNQL still something that interests Couchdb and if so what sort time frame are
we talking?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alon Keren [mailto:alon.keren@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 16 April 2012 21:28
>> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>>
>> Thank you guys for making this poll, and for publishing the minutes and
>> audio.
>>
>> I've voted, and it would be really nice to have this (or other) list as a
>> wish-list that couchdb users could continuously update.
>>
>>  Alon
>>
>> On 16 April 2012 10:07, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Good on you for trying something different. I cast 100 votes and then
>>> figured that was enough. If you want my top 5 then they are:
>>>
>>> 1. Chained Views
>>> 2. Richer Map Reduce
>>> 3. Simpler Query
>>> 4. Performance (high update low query/read) i.e. incremental map reduce
>>> 5. Documentation
>>>
>>> We use CouchDB fro analytic, hence the bias above :-)
>>>
>>> Keep up the good work
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Robert Newson [mailto:rnewson@apache.org]
>>> Sent: 14 April 2012 18:30
>>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>>>
>>> The feedback on the mailing lists, IRC and twitter has been very
>>> helpful, thanks everyone for the responses!
>>>
>>> I'm going to take this feedback and provide a condensed list of
>>> features. I will write up each item on our wiki, then we'll reset the
>>> poll so that more folks can vote knowledgeably on the features. I
>>> suspect it'll be a couple of hours, so I'll post here when it's up.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> B.
>>>
>>> On 14 April 2012 17:30, Bob Dionne <dionne@dionne-associates.com> wrote:
>>> > I kind of agree, though I think voting is neat. I'd like to think most
>>> of these features are influenced by experiences with users in addition to
>>> internal refactoring concerns and so forth.
>>> >
>>> > It might help for everyone to see the list of features (here's a cleaned
>>> up version I got from BobN) [1]. As Benoit suggests, we need to
>>> sort/categorize them first before attaching priorities.
>>> >
>>> > One thing we might think of is the areas they might be grouped in, along
>>> the line of teams as Jan suggested at the summit.
>>> >
>>> > I'm happy to maintain this list as we drill down into the specifics,
>>> summarize email threads, and IRC chats. Some of these, .eg. moving metadata
>>> out of the docs, could easily require a lot of detailed discussion as they
>>> hit many areas of the code, so we should flesh out the details.
>>> >
>>> > It was great to meet everyone finally, I think we accomplished a whole
>>> lot. Thanks to Cloudant, Bocoup, and others for hosting, beers, etc.. and a
>>> big thanks to Sam Bisbee and Joan Touzet for detailed notes and general cat
>>> herding.
>>> >
>>> > Bob
>>> >
>>> > [1]
>>> https://github.com/bdionne/couchdb/blob/master/feature-list-from-summit.md
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 14, 2012, at 11:10 AM, Klaus Trainer wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> <DISCLAIMER>
>>> >> I know CouchDB's internals to some degree and even contributed a few
>>> >> bits to its codebase a while ago (and still follow its development to
>>> >> some degree). However, I see myself primarily as a CouchDB user. I've
>>> >> been using it successfully not only in my own pet projects, but also
>>> >> together with a small team in a consulting project for a client. I do
>>> >> have experience when it comes to explaining CouchDB's ideas, concepts,
>>> >> and how it can be used in practice to both technical and non-technical
>>> >> people.
>>> >> </DISCLAIMER>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> My initial reaction to this web page was very positive (hey, great to
>>> >> have a collection of great new features that we can vote upon and
>>> >> implement!). After voting and having had some sleep on it, I'm pretty
>>> >> sure that it's not suitable, at least not in this way, though. The main
>>> >> problem that I have with it is that I'm quite convinced that if we try
>>> >> to implement the features corresponding to their score on the results
>>> >> page (http://www.allourideas.org/couchdb2012/results?more=true), we
>>> will
>>> >> either fail executing for some reason, or (the worse case), succeed
and
>>> >> have given CouchDB a more catchy list of features instead of having
it
>>> >> made a better piece of software. Please let me explain the issues that
>>> >> seem important to me.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> The main problem with that survey is that it does neither ask nor answer
>>> >> the questions that are actually important if we want to make CouchDB
an
>>> >> even better piece of software. I collected three main questions:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. What problem, or rather what type of problems does that feature
>>> >> solve?
>>> >>
>>> >> 2. What are the implications and tradeoffs for the different types of
>>> >> stakeholders that the feature brings with it?
>>> >>    - For me as a CouchDB user, how will that feature affect me when
I'm
>>> >> using CouchDB?
>>> >>    - For me as a third-party developer, how will that feature affect
my
>>> >> work on CouchDB modules/plugins/tools?
>>> >>    - For me as a CouchDB core developer, how will that feature affect
>>> >> my work on CouchDB?
>>> >>    - For me as as CouchDB package maintainer, how will that feature
>>> >> affect my work on packaging/maintaining CouchDB?
>>> >>    - For me as as Sysadmin / CouchDB operator, how will that feature
>>> >> affect me on operating CouchDB?
>>> >>
>>> >> 3. How is or how can an existing problem be solved without having the
>>> >> feature implemented in CouchDB directly? (That is, are there
>>> >> modules/plugins/tools available that help me solve that problem. If
not,
>>> >> how difficult would it be to create one?)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Furthermore, I've got one additional question that, although it likely
>>> >> helps understanding a feature, however is not as important as the three
>>> >> above:
>>> >>
>>> >> -> What are the reasons that the feature has not already been
>>> >> implemented?
>>> >>
>>> >> This question is probably easier to answer when having a list of
>>> >> potential answers, for instance:
>>> >>
>>> >> * Only very few users have that issue, and most users will likely never
>>> >> have to deal with it.
>>> >> * Most users are confronted with that issue at some time, but it's so
>>> >> trivial to solve it without having the feature in CouchDB anyway.
>>> >> * It's hard to implement because (although feasible) it's just so much
>>> >> work.
>>> >> * It's hard to implement because its highly complex and very uncertain
>>> >> if it can be brought into CouchDB anyway.
>>> >> * Although easy to implement or already implemented, it hasn't been
>>> >> and/or won't be accepted by the CouchDB core developers for some reason.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 20:24 -0400, Joan Touzet wrote:
>>> >>> Thanks to everyone who participated in the CouchDB summit in Boston
>>> this
>>> >>> week! In case you didn't know, the (25 pages!) of meeting minutes
are
>>> >>> available for review at http://s.apache.org/ndI .
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Here's where we need YOUR HELP. During the summit, the participants
>>> >>> identified 38 key features we think are important for CouchDB's
future.
>>> >>> Please help us RANK these ideas by visiting our All Our Ideas page:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>   http://www.allourideas.org/couchdb2012/
>>> >>>
>>> >>> All Our Ideas is a free/open source solution for voting based on
>>> >>> pairwise comparison - think Kittenwar - and is super easy to use.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Please complete as many comparisons as you can; we'd like all the
>>> >>> feedback we can get. We'd be thrilled if each of you did at least
100
>>> >>> comparisons.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks again for your help in determining the future of Apache CouchDB!
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>

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