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From James Fisher <jameshfis...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org
Date Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:41:41 GMT
Hey all,

I've had a long weekend away.  Nice to see this thread's still active.

I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out.  My opinions
haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in favour
of keeping Myriad.  (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with
Comic Sans.  I could show you what that would look like; you'd be
horrified.  It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any
reputability of any other rounded fonts.)

WRT Chris' fork:

* I like the copy; I've pulled it
* The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure swapping
back to plain is the best solution.  I've lightened the cyans I was working
with.
* I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax" slogan
looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space.
* The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied.
The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is
bad.  Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from
there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text.  That's alright
with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the same
(or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped.

This is how things stand:
http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png

Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should actually
be in *Semibold*.  Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of
Myriad.  Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll pull
it.


James

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne <dionne@dionne-associates.com
> wrote:

> This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can
> lose the two commas.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>
> On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson <jchris@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
> >
> >> CouchDB is a database built for the Web.
> >>
> >> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote:
> >>
> >>      "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but
> CouchDB is built of the Web."
> >>
> >>      - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >
> > I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a screenshot:
> >
> > http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png
> >
> > The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web
> >
> > The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back
> toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.)
> >
> > Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some work,
> but it was fun to get my hands dirty.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote:
> >>
> >>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web."
> >>>
> >>> Or "...comfortable with the web."
> >>>
> >>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting.  They
> both
> >>> look fine to me.
> >>>
> >>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson <robert.newson@gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Paweł Stawicki <
> pawelstawicki@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old
> one,
> >>>> can
> >>>>> be new one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Paweł Stawicki
> >>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com
> >>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson <jchris@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson <
> jchris@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm.  Try:
> >>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people
to change the
> >>>> word
> >>>>>> mark
> >>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If
you can go
> back
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is.  I suppose the pros
and cons
> >>>> are:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Expensive.  Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury.
> >>>>>>> * Already used.  If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained
brand
> >>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There
are
> already
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark,
> we'd
> >>>> only
> >>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare
away
> people
> >>>>>> who want to use it for serious things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever
going to
> be
> >>>>>> used
> >>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> cons:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Expensive.  Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't
managed
> to
> >>>>>> hoover
> >>>>>>> it up.  I doubt many people except professional graphic
artists own
> a
> >>>>>>> genuine copy.
> >>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't
think
> >>>> there's
> >>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad).  I suppose you
could
> call
> >>>> that
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB
> identity
> >>>> fits
> >>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium.  I don't want to kick
back on an
> >>>>>> aluminium
> >>>>>>> couch.
> >>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal.  It has
a
> "friendly
> >>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there).
 E.g.
> >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions
it's
> used
> >>>> by
> >>>>>> All
> >>>>>>> Nippon business class flights.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Candela pros:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way.
> >>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face
and any
> >>>> other
> >>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license).
> >>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making
it
> >>>> potentially
> >>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> cons:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey
would
> be
> >>>>>> nice
> >>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think.  Alternatively, turn up
the
> >>>> brightness.
> >>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz <
> >>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb:
> >>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here,
but here goes.  Find
> >>>> attached
> >>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design.  Only Inkscape atm,
but I should be able
> to
> >>>>>>>> convert
> >>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss.  A few notes:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted
while writing this
> >>>>>> email?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>> Julian
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater
<nslater@me.com
> >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:nslater@me.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do.  I'm doing some rough
sketches now; might
> get
> >>>>>>>>>>> something
> >>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wiki:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference:
> >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this
was a good way
> >>>> forward
> >>>>>>>>>>> for the site.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website
redesign" and maybe
> get
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>> touch with:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>       maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com
<mailto:
> >>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last
time!
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> N
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Phil Rand
> >>> philrand@gmail.com
> >>> philrand@pobox.com
> >>
> >
>

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