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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:30:09 +0100
Message-ID: 
 <CAPaJBx602F80tiM-N38+-KGdtEghQ3NxF9CbvZKESkRunjcy=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Summary of IRC meeting in #couchdb-meeting,
 Wed Apr 10 19:01:05 2013
From: Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <dev@couchdb.apache.org>
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The weekly meeting can be short. If there's nothing to report, there's
nothing to report. No need to waffle on each week with repetitive status
updates. But I actually don't think we've suffered that at all. Every
meeting we've had has been useful from my perspective. And it establishes a
heartbeat for the project, which has so far been very beneficial.

I will be continuing the weekly meetings for the time being, and I am happy
to chair them if other people are not interested. This is something I don't
need consensus for. If you don't want to show up, don't show up. ;)

Similarly, if anyone else has an idea for a meeting, whether it's a regular
meeting, or a one-off for a feature, just do it. No need to ask anybody's
permission. Just like you don't ask permission to send an email to dev@! :)

Also, monthly "obligatory" meeting won't work because:

 * Doing it once a month would render the meetings useless for week to week
work, like releases.

 * More than likely to miss one or more key people in a single monthly
meeting.

 * There is no such thing as "obligatory" on this project... ;)


On 10 April 2013 21:07, ASF IRC Services <asfbot@wilderness.apache.org>wrot=
e:

> Members present: benoitc, wendall911, ryan_ramage, chewbranca, dch
>
> ----------------
> Meeting summary:
> ----------------
>
> 1. Preface
>
> 2. meeting frequency
>   a. benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a mont=
h
> obligatory meeting (ryan_ramage, 2)
>
> 3. 1.3.0 release congrats
>   a. thanks for all the hard work to everyone for getting 1.3.0 out the
> door (ryan_ramage, 3)
>
> 4. javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of
> _restart
>   a. couch 2.0 query server proposal
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve(ryan_=
ramage, 4)
>   b. wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to
> start gathering ideas for a formal proposal  (ryan_ramage, 4)
>
> 5. erlang r13b04
>   a. dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it (dch, 5)
>
> 6. fauxton
>
> 7. GsoC
>   a. everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise ->
> dch to send email (ryan_ramage, 7)
>   b. dch to mail dev@ and user@ (dch, 7)
>   c. ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys (ryan_ramage, 7)
>   d. offers to mentor are available for GSoC (ryan_ramage, 7)
>
> 8. open discussion
>
>
> --------
> Actions:
> --------
> - benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month
> obligatory meeting (ryan_ramage, 19:17:28)
> - wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to
> start gathering ideas for a formal proposal  (ryan_ramage, 19:25:35)
> - dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it (dch, 19:38:28)
> - everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dc=
h
> to send email (ryan_ramage, 19:55:58)
> - dch to mail dev@ and user@ (dch, 19:56:00)
> - ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys (ryan_ramage, 19:57:37)
>
> IRC log follows:
>
>
> # 1. Preface #
> 19:01:20 [ryan_ramage]: sweet
> 19:01:58 [ryan_ramage]: hey all, dch can't stick around so has put me in
> charge of this loose group of awesome
> 19:02:13 [ryan_ramage]: so send me your topics and we will start in 5 min
> 19:03:58 [ryan_ramage]: poke chewbranca, davisp garren JasonSmith kocolos=
k
> nslater rnewson alice|wl bartender benoitc bigbluehat dpk drsm79
> 19:04:30 [ryan_ramage]: poke Humbedooh jan____ jeffmjack jeffmjack Kxepal
> mikewallace sbisbee sbp svnlto vmx Yakulu
> 19:05:20 [benoitc]: i'bve no other topic except that we should relax the
> weekly meeting to one/month
> 19:06:15 [benoitc]: which is a topic.
> 19:06:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok. will add meeting frequency as a topic
> 19:07:43 [ryan_ramage]: wow, this is quiet.
> 19:08:16 [wendall911]: who is MC today?
> 19:08:35 [wendall911]: who's running this show!
> 19:08:35 [ryan_ramage]: ok one more minute. I'll add a topic for the 1.3
> release post congrats
> 19:08:35 [wendall911]: :)
> 19:08:36 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: I am
> 19:08:50 [ryan_ramage]: got any topics, send 'em my way
> 19:08:50 [wendall911]: cool, I'd like to add a topic
> 19:09:28 [wendall911]: Discuss javascript test update. View engine
> update/replacement. Removal of _restart
> 19:09:36 [ryan_ramage]: ok cool. noted.
> 19:09:38 [wendall911]: they are all related for my current issues
> 19:09:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok, lets start
>
>
> # 2. meeting frequency #
> 19:10:07 [dch]: topic um r13b04, has anybody tested it lately (another
> topic)
> 19:10:35 [ryan_ramage]: benoitc: you would like to suggest from once a
> week to once a month?
> 19:10:43 [benoitc]: yes
> 19:10:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok, sway the crowd....
> 19:11:20 [benoitc]: cause i personnaly find that there is less interrest
> tduring these last 3 meetings
> 19:11:37 [benoitc]: all can bet more energizing with real content
> 19:11:50 [benoitc]: s/bet/be
> 19:12:13 [wendall911]: I think this would be fine. I'd like to have the
> ability to plan special meetings. Where we can discuss specific issues on
> the side that are outside of what the entire group may want to contribute
> to.
> 19:12:35 [benoitc]: i have even heitate to be be online for this one if i=
t
> was to hear the same thing as l;ast week whoich was the same from last la=
st
> week
> 19:13:06 [ryan_ramage]: yes, its usually like many orbs, people are busy
> and updates start to sound the same
> 19:13:20 [ryan_ramage]: s/orbs/orgs
> 19:13:28 [benoitc]: yes
> 19:13:35 [wendall911]: benoitc: I only showed up today because I wanted
> some thoughts on where to get started on view engine. List is probably th=
e
> proper place though.
> 19:13:50 [wendall911]: Essentially, not necessarily something to meet
> about.
> 19:13:58 [dch]: I'm easy but I like the momentum -- it keeps me moving.
> 19:14:20 [benoitc]: wendall911: and that's perfectly fine. i think my ide=
a
> would be havin aone "obligatory" meeting /month
> 19:14:20 [dch]: and there's definite value in being in the same place/tim=
e
> occasionally, but it doesn't have to be weekly. We just started with that=
.
> 19:14:29 [ryan_ramage]: maybe the format and frequency are related. How
> topics are kept, tracked and followed up.
> 19:14:38 [benoitc]: and meeting orginezed by informal group or when we
> need an instant discussion
> 19:15:13 [wendall911]: +1 on benoitc's suggestion
> 19:15:50 [wendall911]: benoitc: It might be nice for these side
> discussions to be announced on the list. It would give anyone a chance to
> attend if they wanted.
> 19:15:58 [benoitc]: since it need aa concensus ,i propose to propose that
> on the ml
> 19:16:23 [benoitc]: wendall911: yes I keep saying that since awhile, also
> then the discussion can start off
> 19:16:43 [ryan_ramage]: yes so benoitc can you send a ml the proposal.
> 19:16:43 [benoitc]: and other things related (like thinking on what we ca=
n
> add to a topic)
> 19:16:45 [ryan_ramage]: I would back it
> 19:16:50 [benoitc]: ryan_ramage: yes
> 19:17:15 [benoitc]: will do tomorrow
> 19:17:21 [benoitc]: put it as an action
> 19:17:28 [ryan_ramage]: #action benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing
> list to have a once a month obligatory meeting
> 19:17:52 [ryan_ramage]: ok, shall we move on?
> 19:18:05 [benoitc]:  i'm done myself
>
>
> # 3. 1.3.0 release congrats #
> 19:18:35 [ryan_ramage]: awesome work everyone
> 19:18:50 [ryan_ramage]: a very big release, to be proud of
> 19:19:43 [ryan_ramage]: #info thanks for all the hard work to everyone fo=
r
> getting 1.3.0 out the door
> 19:20:13 [ryan_ramage]: ok, prolly nothing actionible here=C4=81=E2=82=AC=
=C2=A6.
>
>
> # 4. javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of
> _restart #
> 19:20:51 [ryan_ramage]: go ahead wendall911
> 19:20:59 [wendall911]: I think I should move this to the list and propose
> a side meeting
> 19:21:30 [wendall911]: It's a little complicated, and I've been combing
> the lists and gathering specific comments about each issue.
> 19:21:59 [wendall911]: There are several ideas floating around right now,
> but what I want to do is arrive at some kind of a consensus so I can star=
t
> coding on this
> 19:22:20 [benoitc]: wendall911: just to add some  food fot thoughts ,
> there ois someone that posted a proposal on g+
> 19:22:28 [benoitc]: for the view engine protocol
> 19:22:35 [wendall911]: benoitc: ok, didn't see that
> 19:22:45 [wendall911]: benoitc: that's the exact reason this should be
> centered around a discussion
> 19:22:58 [ryan_ramage]: benoitc: I am going to put on my apache nslater
> hat and say send the link/discussion to the ml
> 19:23:07 [benoitc]:
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve
> 19:23:29 [benoitc]: yeah not time for that these days sorry
> 19:23:58 [benoitc]: wendall911: i would say ml + wiki
> 19:24:05 [wendall911]: Nice, I think I'm mostly concerned at this point
> with the underlying libs used for the view engine. Nodejs, V8 or
> spidermonkey
> 19:24:13 [benoitc]: imo would be good if we come with a full proposal
> 19:24:20 [wendall911]: agreed
> 19:24:20 [benoitc]: i've also spome doc i've zritten sometime ago
> 19:24:35 [ryan_ramage]: #info couch 2.0 query server proposal
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve
> 19:24:50 [benoitc]: i think we should first discuss about th eprotocol
> 19:24:50 [wendall911]: benoitc: ok, I'll start a discussion on dev and ad=
d
> a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal
> 19:24:58 [benoitc]: then we could have alternative implementation
> 19:24:59 [benoitc]: s
> 19:25:20 [benoitc]: also relate questions:
> 19:25:28 [dch]: yeah maybe ask Samuel if he minds moving this to the wiki
> for moar discussion
> 19:25:29 [benoitc]: how the couchapp engine enter in that ?
> 19:25:35 [ryan_ramage]: #action wendall911 to start discussion on dev and
> add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal
> 19:25:37 [benoitc]: couldn't we simpliify th ething ...
> 19:25:50 [benoitc]: chewbranca: has also started a thing or two
> 19:25:58 [benoitc]: dch: he did
> 19:26:07 [benoitc]: there is a post on the ml if I remember
> 19:26:28 [wendall911]: I'll dig through the archive a bit more and add to
> my email and wiki
> 19:26:30 [chewbranca]: hey, just getting here
> 19:26:43 [wendall911]: I have about 10 threads so far with comments aroun=
d
> this issue that add value
> 19:26:43 [ryan_ramage]: welcome chewbranca
> 19:27:05 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: yeah would be good to gather on one
> place on the wiki
> 19:27:14 [chewbranca]:  ACTION waves at ryan_ramage
> 19:27:58 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: I've been asked to run the show today=
,
> can I slot you in for some fauxton topic time?
> 19:28:13 [chewbranca]: sure, I can give a quick update on that
> 19:28:23 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: so we good to move on?
> 19:28:28 [wendall911]: ok, I think that's all for now on this. I'll
> followup on ML and wiki
> 19:28:28 [chewbranca]: I'm also very interested in alternative query
> engines
> 19:28:50 [chewbranca]: I would like to also propose or talk about
> separating couchapps from view engines
> 19:28:51 [ryan_ramage]: [off[ dch noted
> 19:28:58 [ryan_ramage]: bah
> 19:29:21 [benoitc]: chewbranca: can we put last topic on the l ?
> 19:29:23 [benoitc]: i have to go
> 19:29:29 [ryan_ramage]: ok, thanks benoitc
> 19:29:35 [chewbranca]: ok yeah, lets do that
> 19:29:43 [chewbranca]: I've got some code to link out for that too
> 19:29:50 [benoitc]: cool thx
> 19:29:50 [benoitc]: also nice
> 19:30:28 [ryan_ramage]: ok, moving on I think=C4=81=E2=82=AC=C2=A6
> 19:31:00 [chewbranca]: sounds good
>
>
> # 5. erlang r13b04 #
> 19:31:06 [ryan_ramage]: dch: go
> 19:32:22 [ryan_ramage]: or anyone=C4=81=E2=82=AC=C2=A6I think the idea wa=
s=C4=81=E2=82=AC=C2=A6 has anybody
> tested it lately?
> 19:32:29 [dch]: sorry, here.
> 19:33:13 [dch]: yup this turned up when I was fiddling with migrating to
> mochiweb 2.4.2, I had *lots* of failures, this on a std 12.04 ubuntu off
> ec2.
> 19:33:30 [dch]: so the question is, basically "does anybody use R13B04 at
> all?"
> 19:34:20 [wendall911]: dch: this is mainly centered around *very* old
> linux distros. Centos 5 and ~3 yr old debian/ubuntu
> 19:34:50 [dch]: wendall911: right, that's what I'm thinking. lucid for
> example or pre squeeze debian.
> 19:35:28 [wendall911]: I think the question is more a matter of how long
> we can add support for very old distributions. Those are still on 1.0 or
> earlier, so really not an issue, imo
> 19:35:43 [dch]: well I think we can roll the discussion into COUCHDB-1696
> (the mochiweb migration ticket)
> 19:35:43 [wendall911]: and they are never going to see even 1.2.x
> 19:36:20 [dch]: ok that covers it then, thanks wendall911
> 19:36:43 [wendall911]: so it's really not a problem as I see it dropping
> support for it, as it's barely relevant. Anyone using Centos 5 for exampl=
e,
> and needing 1.3.0 will need to probably upgrade a dozen or more packages
> themselves anyhow
> 19:36:58 [wendall911]: dch: np
> 19:37:35 [ryan_ramage]: ok, can someone sum up so I can put an info or
> action down?
> 19:38:23 [wendall911]: One small thing to add here
> 19:38:28 [dch]: #action dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on i=
t
> 19:38:35 [wendall911]: I brought this up on the list yesterday
> 19:39:13 [wendall911]: This could represent a breaking change for
> packagers. So, say we strip support from 1.3.x, it shouldn't get a patch
> bump, as it's a major dependency change.
> 19:39:20 [wendall911]: at least not from my perspective
> 19:40:20 [wendall911]: I don't think the api is the only important piece
> relevant to the semantic version. Might be wrong here, but these changes
> have implications for someone.
> 19:40:43 [wendall911]: and if it's a major version bump in a lib, or
> dropping support, can be problematic downstream
> 19:41:22 [dch]: I think the most likely move is that we set spidermonkey
> at 1.8.5 (so we can drop a lot of crufty code & autotools checks) and dit=
to
> for R14+ the same.
> 19:41:50 [dch]: for most current distros this won't break anything.
> 19:42:08 [dch]: and for older ones I assume packagers will not be bumping
> them anyway, unless via backports/epel.
> 19:42:13 [wendall911]: right, but dropping spidermonkey 1.7 is
> problematic, as it's still deemed relevant in newer distributions
> 19:42:28 [wendall911]: no, Centos 6 is the current release and it ships
> with 1.7
> 19:42:31 [dch]: SRSLY.
> 19:42:35 [wendall911]: RHEL, etc
> 19:42:38 [dch]: oh well, noted!
> 19:42:44 [wendall911]: yeah, spidermonkey doesn't have a history of
> encouraging updating ;)
> 19:43:40 [dch]: next topic? I think we are done
> 19:43:47 [ryan_ramage]: ok
>
>
> # 6. fauxton #
> 19:44:24 [ryan_ramage]: I should have some updates, but I sadly say I do
> not. chewbranca ?
> 19:45:16 [wendall911]: I have a question about coding style. Is this
> documented somewhere?
> 19:45:54 [wendall911]: I can rant for a while about nodejs style of
> javascript coding, but just wanting to know if we have a style guide.
> 19:46:09 [chewbranca]: hey
> 19:46:24 [chewbranca]: yeah, partially asleep right now
> 19:46:54 [chewbranca]: so I've got a branch pushed out that's rebuilding
> the routing system right now, specifically to address problems with full
> page reloads and shared state between subtabs and what not
> 19:47:32 [chewbranca]: if you haven't used fauxton yet, that probably
> doesn't make sense, but if you're familiar with it, you will have seen th=
e
> random flickers and full page reloads for things that should only change
> part of the page
> 19:50:09 [ryan_ramage]: only thing I want to add is to make sure to add
> *fauxton* somewhere in the branch name so others can play when ci pushes
> out a build
> 19:50:46 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: do we have a style guide somewhere?
> wendall911 was asking
> 19:51:27 [ryan_ramage]: ok, trying to make this quick=C4=81=E2=82=AC=C2=
=A6moving on
>
>
> # 7. GsoC #
> 19:52:11 [ryan_ramage]: dch: ?
> 19:52:39 [dch]: So we got into GSoC both as a project and as the
> foundation.
> 19:53:29 [dch]: I'd love if over the next 2 weeks we can do some
> propaganda (twitter, emails, local user groups etc) to invite students to
> join, and bring some more people into couch-love.
> 19:53:38 [dch]: so call for help on 2 folds;
> 19:54:13 [dch]: 1. everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or
> prioritise -> dch to send email
> 19:55:43 [dch]: 2. offer to mentor.
> 19:55:51 [dch]: that's basically it, a heads up.
> 19:55:58 [ryan_ramage]: #action everybody to review the GSoC tickets and
> filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email
> 19:56:00 [dch]: #action dch to mail dev@ and user@
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: for instance, I added pagination to _all_dbs, but
> because of this problem, every single page you go through would do a full
> page reload, which is a mistake for _all_dbs, because it does not support
> any proper limit or range functions, and you get every single value at on=
ce
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: so we don't want to reload all the things, but jus=
t
> change a few
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: anyways, started working on that this week, garren
> has been doing some great auth work that's coming along, and we've been
> doing a lot of misc cleanup to get things working well in fauxton
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: we would love to get more people using fauxton and
> doing some QA, if you find oddities, please file a JIRA ticket and we'll
> get it cleaned up
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: also, ryan_ramage, it doesn't look like the app on
> fauxton.iriscouch.com has been updated in a while, any ideas on that? I
> saw a failed test email, but haven't had a chance to look at it yet
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: and wendall911, back to your actual question, ther=
e
> isn't an official style guide, but I'm partial to most things in:
> http://nodeguide.com/style.html
> 19:56:21 [chewbranca]: that's it from me
> 19:56:28 [chewbranca]: wow... netsplit
> 19:56:36 [chewbranca]: did any of my messages get through?
> 19:56:37 [wendall911]: dch: where is the best place to do this right now?
> G+, cause hacker news and reddit aren't really producing much relevant or
> useful discussion lately.
> 19:56:38 [dch]: lols so thats what happens
> 19:56:58 [ryan_ramage]: wowza. time machine
> 19:56:58 [dch]: wendall911: I guess where ever you feel that works
> 19:57:37 [ryan_ramage]: #action ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deplo=
ys
> 19:57:37 [wendall911]: chewbranca: awesome. I think I agree with most of
> that :)
> 19:57:58 [chewbranca]: did a flood of messages from me eventually show up=
?
> 19:58:21 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: yeah. I think they came
> 19:58:43 [chewbranca]: wendall911: yeah, its kind of a random guide, but
> it think its a pretty good list
> 19:58:46 [chewbranca]: ryan_ramage: cool, thanks
> 19:58:59 [ryan_ramage]: #info offers to mentor are available for GSoC
> 19:59:05 [chewbranca]: wendall911: yeah good idea
> 19:59:21 [wendall911]: dch: ok, I'd love to get some attention, just not
> sure where all the cool kids hang out nowadays
> 19:59:23 [ryan_ramage]: ok dch, closing GSoC topic
> 19:59:29 [dch]: ACK.
> 19:59:43 [dch]: They hang out in #couchdb-dev :D
> 19:59:45 [wendall911]: hahaha
>
>
> # 8. open discussion #
> 19:59:51 [ryan_ramage]: anything else?
> 19:59:59 [wendall911]: I have one comment
> 20:00:06 [ryan_ramage]: 1 min closing bell
> 20:00:13 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: shoot
> 20:00:13 [wendall911]: I'd like to see the failing test on master get fix=
ed
> 20:00:37 [wendall911]: so Travis can quit bugging me :)
> 20:00:50 [wendall911]: no discussion needed
> 20:01:35 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: when you say failing test, is it only
> one that is failing?
> 20:02:03 [wendall911]: make distcheck
> 20:02:11 [wendall911]: https://travis-ci.org/apache/couchdb/jobs/6205323
> 20:02:20 [wendall911]: oh, not a test, just distcheck is failing
> 20:02:33 [wendall911]: For some reason I thought it was a test
> 20:02:33 [chewbranca]: ahhh yeah looks like its failing on
> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/src/fauxton/tasks/addon/ren=
ame.json
> 20:02:41 [wendall911]: I never run distcheck, only make && make check
> 20:02:42 [dch]: wendall911: nice piece of work on this btw
> 20:03:04 [wendall911]: dch: no problem, just a start :)
> 20:03:12 [chewbranca]: odd, looks like simon added that file to
> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/license.skip#L116
> 20:03:48 [wendall911]: I have one other makefile issue that got pushed ou=
t
> in 1.3.0 I didn't catch
> 20:04:03 [wendall911]: I'll file a ticket and get it fixed later today.
> Was a minor issue with the manifest
> 20:04:26 [ryan_ramage]: ok gonna close this off
>
>


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