Mailing-List: contact dev-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
From: "ASF IRC Services" <asfbot@wilderness.apache.org>
To: "Summary Recipient" <dev@couchdb.apache.org>
Subject: Summary of IRC meeting in #couchdb-meeting, Wed Apr 10 19:01:05 2013
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="=_NextPart_DC7E1BB5_1105_4DB3_BAE3_2A6208EB099D"
Message-Id: <20130410200726.E88C811674@urd.zones.apache.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 20:07:26 +0000 (UTC)

--=_NextPart_DC7E1BB5_1105_4DB3_BAE3_2A6208EB099D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Members present: benoitc, wendall911, ryan_ramage, chewbranca, dch

----------------
Meeting summary:
----------------

1. Preface

2. meeting frequency
  a. benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month obligatory meeting (ryan_ramage, 2)

3. 1.3.0 release congrats
  a. thanks for all the hard work to everyone for getting 1.3.0 out the door (ryan_ramage, 3)

4. javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of _restart
  a. couch 2.0 query server proposal https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve (ryan_ramage, 4)
  b. wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal  (ryan_ramage, 4)

5. erlang r13b04
  a. dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it (dch, 5)

6. fauxton

7. GsoC
  a. everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email (ryan_ramage, 7)
  b. dch to mail dev@ and user@ (dch, 7)
  c. ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys (ryan_ramage, 7)
  d. offers to mentor are available for GSoC (ryan_ramage, 7)

8. open discussion


--------
Actions:
--------
- benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month obligatory meeting (ryan_ramage, 19:17:28)
- wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal  (ryan_ramage, 19:25:35)
- dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it (dch, 19:38:28)
- everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email (ryan_ramage, 19:55:58)
- dch to mail dev@ and user@ (dch, 19:56:00)
- ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys (ryan_ramage, 19:57:37)

IRC log follows:


# 1. Preface #
19:01:20 [ryan_ramage]: sweet
19:01:58 [ryan_ramage]: hey all, dch can't stick around so has put me in charge of this loose group of awesome
19:02:13 [ryan_ramage]: so send me your topics and we will start in 5 min
19:03:58 [ryan_ramage]: poke chewbranca, davisp garren JasonSmith kocolosk nslater rnewson alice|wl bartender benoitc bigbluehat dpk drsm79 
19:04:30 [ryan_ramage]: poke Humbedooh jan____ jeffmjack jeffmjack Kxepal mikewallace sbisbee sbp svnlto vmx Yakulu 
19:05:20 [benoitc]: i'bve no other topic except that we should relax the weekly meeting to one/month
19:06:15 [benoitc]: which is a topic.
19:06:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok. will add meeting frequency as a topic
19:07:43 [ryan_ramage]: wow, this is quiet. 
19:08:16 [wendall911]: who is MC today?
19:08:35 [wendall911]: who's running this show!
19:08:35 [ryan_ramage]: ok one more minute. I'll add a topic for the 1.3 release post congrats
19:08:35 [wendall911]: :)
19:08:36 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: I am 
19:08:50 [ryan_ramage]: got any topics, send 'em my way
19:08:50 [wendall911]: cool, I'd like to add a topic
19:09:28 [wendall911]: Discuss javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of _restart
19:09:36 [ryan_ramage]: ok cool. noted.  
19:09:38 [wendall911]: they are all related for my current issues
19:09:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok, lets start 


# 2. meeting frequency #
19:10:07 [dch]: topic um r13b04, has anybody tested it lately (another topic)
19:10:35 [ryan_ramage]: benoitc: you would like to suggest from once a week to once a month?
19:10:43 [benoitc]: yes
19:10:58 [ryan_ramage]: ok, sway the crowd....
19:11:20 [benoitc]: cause i personnaly find that there is less interrest tduring these last 3 meetings
19:11:37 [benoitc]: all can bet more energizing with real content 
19:11:50 [benoitc]: s/bet/be
19:12:13 [wendall911]: I think this would be fine. I'd like to have the ability to plan special meetings. Where we can discuss specific issues on the side that are outside of what the entire group may want to contribute to.
19:12:35 [benoitc]: i have even heitate to be be online for this one if it was to hear the same thing as l;ast week whoich was the same from last last week
19:13:06 [ryan_ramage]: yes, its usually like many orbs, people are busy and updates start to sound the same
19:13:20 [ryan_ramage]: s/orbs/orgs
19:13:28 [benoitc]: yes
19:13:35 [wendall911]: benoitc: I only showed up today because I wanted some thoughts on where to get started on view engine. List is probably the proper place though.
19:13:50 [wendall911]: Essentially, not necessarily something to meet about.
19:13:58 [dch]: I'm easy but I like the momentum -- it keeps me moving.
19:14:20 [benoitc]: wendall911: and that's perfectly fine. i think my idea would be havin aone "obligatory" meeting /month
19:14:20 [dch]: and there's definite value in being in the same place/time occasionally, but it doesn't have to be weekly. We just started with that.
19:14:29 [ryan_ramage]: maybe the format and frequency are related. How topics are kept, tracked and followed up.
19:14:38 [benoitc]: and meeting orginezed by informal group or when we need an instant discussion
19:15:13 [wendall911]: +1 on benoitc's suggestion
19:15:50 [wendall911]: benoitc: It might be nice for these side discussions to be announced on the list. It would give anyone a chance to attend if they wanted.
19:15:58 [benoitc]: since it need aa concensus ,i propose to propose that on the ml
19:16:23 [benoitc]: wendall911: yes I keep saying that since awhile, also then the discussion can start off
19:16:43 [ryan_ramage]: yes so benoitc can you send a ml the proposal. 
19:16:43 [benoitc]: and other things related (like thinking on what we can add to a topic)
19:16:45 [ryan_ramage]: I would back it
19:16:50 [benoitc]: ryan_ramage: yes
19:17:15 [benoitc]: will do tomorrow
19:17:21 [benoitc]: put it as an action
19:17:28 [ryan_ramage]: #action benoitc to send a proposal to the mailing list to have a once a month obligatory meeting
19:17:52 [ryan_ramage]: ok, shall we move on?
19:18:05 [benoitc]:  i'm done myself


# 3. 1.3.0 release congrats #
19:18:35 [ryan_ramage]: awesome work everyone
19:18:50 [ryan_ramage]: a very big release, to be proud of
19:19:43 [ryan_ramage]: #info thanks for all the hard work to everyone for getting 1.3.0 out the door
19:20:13 [ryan_ramage]: ok, prolly nothing actionible here….


# 4. javascript test update. View engine update/replacement. Removal of _restart #
19:20:51 [ryan_ramage]: go ahead wendall911 
19:20:59 [wendall911]: I think I should move this to the list and propose a side meeting
19:21:30 [wendall911]: It's a little complicated, and I've been combing the lists and gathering specific comments about each issue.
19:21:59 [wendall911]: There are several ideas floating around right now, but what I want to do is arrive at some kind of a consensus so I can start coding on this
19:22:20 [benoitc]: wendall911: just to add some  food fot thoughts , there ois someone that posted a proposal on g+
19:22:28 [benoitc]: for the view engine protocol
19:22:35 [wendall911]: benoitc: ok, didn't see that
19:22:45 [wendall911]: benoitc: that's the exact reason this should be centered around a discussion
19:22:58 [ryan_ramage]: benoitc: I am going to put on my apache nslater hat and say send the link/discussion to the ml
19:23:07 [benoitc]: https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve
19:23:29 [benoitc]: yeah not time for that these days sorry
19:23:58 [benoitc]: wendall911: i would say ml + wiki
19:24:05 [wendall911]: Nice, I think I'm mostly concerned at this point with the underlying libs used for the view engine. Nodejs, V8 or spidermonkey
19:24:13 [benoitc]: imo would be good if we come with a full proposal
19:24:20 [wendall911]: agreed
19:24:20 [benoitc]: i've also spome doc i've zritten sometime ago
19:24:35 [ryan_ramage]: #info couch 2.0 query server proposal https://plus.google.com/u/0/113807980501912604291/posts/EWgzb8dJeve
19:24:50 [benoitc]: i think we should first discuss about th eprotocol
19:24:50 [wendall911]: benoitc: ok, I'll start a discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal
19:24:58 [benoitc]: then we could have alternative implementation
19:24:59 [benoitc]: s
19:25:20 [benoitc]: also relate questions:
19:25:28 [dch]: yeah maybe ask Samuel if he minds moving this to the wiki for moar discussion
19:25:29 [benoitc]: how the couchapp engine enter in that ?
19:25:35 [ryan_ramage]: #action wendall911 to start discussion on dev and add a page in the wiki to start gathering ideas for a formal proposal 
19:25:37 [benoitc]: couldn't we simpliify th ething ...
19:25:50 [benoitc]: chewbranca: has also started a thing or two
19:25:58 [benoitc]: dch: he did
19:26:07 [benoitc]: there is a post on the ml if I remember
19:26:28 [wendall911]: I'll dig through the archive a bit more and add to my email and wiki
19:26:30 [chewbranca]: hey, just getting here
19:26:43 [wendall911]: I have about 10 threads so far with comments around this issue that add value
19:26:43 [ryan_ramage]: welcome chewbranca 
19:27:05 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: yeah would be good to gather on one place on the wiki
19:27:14 [chewbranca]: ACTION waves at ryan_ramage
19:27:58 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: I've been asked to run the show today, can I slot you in for some fauxton topic time?
19:28:13 [chewbranca]: sure, I can give a quick update on that
19:28:23 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: so we good to move on?
19:28:28 [wendall911]: ok, I think that's all for now on this. I'll followup on ML and wiki
19:28:28 [chewbranca]: I'm also very interested in alternative query engines
19:28:50 [chewbranca]: I would like to also propose or talk about separating couchapps from view engines
19:28:51 [ryan_ramage]: [off[ dch noted 
19:28:58 [ryan_ramage]: bah
19:29:21 [benoitc]: chewbranca: can we put last topic on the l ?
19:29:23 [benoitc]: i have to go 
19:29:29 [ryan_ramage]: ok, thanks benoitc 
19:29:35 [chewbranca]: ok yeah, lets do that
19:29:43 [chewbranca]: I've got some code to link out for that too
19:29:50 [benoitc]: cool thx
19:29:50 [benoitc]: also nice
19:30:28 [ryan_ramage]: ok, moving on I think…
19:31:00 [chewbranca]: sounds good


# 5. erlang r13b04 #
19:31:06 [ryan_ramage]: dch: go
19:32:22 [ryan_ramage]: or anyone…I think the idea was… has anybody tested it lately?
19:32:29 [dch]: sorry, here.
19:33:13 [dch]: yup this turned up when I was fiddling with migrating to mochiweb 2.4.2, I had *lots* of failures, this on a std 12.04 ubuntu off ec2.
19:33:30 [dch]: so the question is, basically "does anybody use R13B04 at all?"
19:34:20 [wendall911]: dch: this is mainly centered around *very* old linux distros. Centos 5 and ~3 yr old debian/ubuntu
19:34:50 [dch]: wendall911: right, that's what I'm thinking. lucid for example or pre squeeze debian.
19:35:28 [wendall911]: I think the question is more a matter of how long we can add support for very old distributions. Those are still on 1.0 or earlier, so really not an issue, imo
19:35:43 [dch]: well I think we can roll the discussion into COUCHDB-1696 (the mochiweb migration ticket) 
19:35:43 [wendall911]: and they are never going to see even 1.2.x
19:36:20 [dch]: ok that covers it then, thanks wendall911 
19:36:43 [wendall911]: so it's really not a problem as I see it dropping support for it, as it's barely relevant. Anyone using Centos 5 for example, and needing 1.3.0 will need to probably upgrade a dozen or more packages themselves anyhow
19:36:58 [wendall911]: dch: np
19:37:35 [ryan_ramage]: ok, can someone sum up so I can put an info or action down?
19:38:23 [wendall911]: One small thing to add here
19:38:28 [dch]: #action dch to update COUCHDB-1696 and prod the list on it
19:38:35 [wendall911]: I brought this up on the list yesterday
19:39:13 [wendall911]: This could represent a breaking change for packagers. So, say we strip support from 1.3.x, it shouldn't get a patch bump, as it's a major dependency change.
19:39:20 [wendall911]: at least not from my perspective 
19:40:20 [wendall911]: I don't think the api is the only important piece relevant to the semantic version. Might be wrong here, but these changes have implications for someone.
19:40:43 [wendall911]: and if it's a major version bump in a lib, or dropping support, can be problematic downstream
19:41:22 [dch]: I think the most likely move is that we set spidermonkey at 1.8.5 (so we can drop a lot of crufty code & autotools checks) and ditto for R14+ the same.
19:41:50 [dch]: for most current distros this won't break anything.
19:42:08 [dch]: and for older ones I assume packagers will not be bumping them anyway, unless via backports/epel.
19:42:13 [wendall911]: right, but dropping spidermonkey 1.7 is problematic, as it's still deemed relevant in newer distributions
19:42:28 [wendall911]: no, Centos 6 is the current release and it ships with 1.7
19:42:31 [dch]: SRSLY.
19:42:35 [wendall911]: RHEL, etc
19:42:38 [dch]: oh well, noted!
19:42:44 [wendall911]: yeah, spidermonkey doesn't have a history of encouraging updating ;)
19:43:40 [dch]: next topic? I think we are done
19:43:47 [ryan_ramage]: ok


# 6. fauxton #
19:44:24 [ryan_ramage]: I should have some updates, but I sadly say I do not. chewbranca ?
19:45:16 [wendall911]: I have a question about coding style. Is this documented somewhere?
19:45:54 [wendall911]: I can rant for a while about nodejs style of javascript coding, but just wanting to know if we have a style guide.
19:46:09 [chewbranca]: hey
19:46:24 [chewbranca]: yeah, partially asleep right now
19:46:54 [chewbranca]: so I've got a branch pushed out that's rebuilding the routing system right now, specifically to address problems with full page reloads and shared state between subtabs and what not
19:47:32 [chewbranca]: if you haven't used fauxton yet, that probably doesn't make sense, but if you're familiar with it, you will have seen the random flickers and full page reloads for things that should only change part of the page
19:50:09 [ryan_ramage]: only thing I want to add is to make sure to add *fauxton* somewhere in the branch name so others can play when ci pushes out a build
19:50:46 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: do we have a style guide somewhere? wendall911 was asking
19:51:27 [ryan_ramage]: ok, trying to make this quick…moving on


# 7. GsoC #
19:52:11 [ryan_ramage]: dch: ?
19:52:39 [dch]: So we got into GSoC both as a project and as the foundation.
19:53:29 [dch]: I'd love if over the next 2 weeks we can do some propaganda (twitter, emails, local user groups etc) to invite students to join, and bring some more people into couch-love.
19:53:38 [dch]: so call for help on 2 folds;
19:54:13 [dch]: 1. everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email
19:55:43 [dch]: 2. offer to mentor.
19:55:51 [dch]: that's basically it, a heads up.
19:55:58 [ryan_ramage]: #action everybody to review the GSoC tickets and filter out or prioritise -> dch to send email
19:56:00 [dch]: #action dch to mail dev@ and user@
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: for instance, I added pagination to _all_dbs, but because of this problem, every single page you go through would do a full page reload, which is a mistake for _all_dbs, because it does not support any proper limit or range functions, and you get every single value at once
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: so we don't want to reload all the things, but just change a few
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: anyways, started working on that this week, garren has been doing some great auth work that's coming along, and we've been doing a lot of misc cleanup to get things working well in fauxton
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: we would love to get more people using fauxton and doing some QA, if you find oddities, please file a JIRA ticket and we'll get it cleaned up
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: also, ryan_ramage, it doesn't look like the app on fauxton.iriscouch.com has been updated in a while, any ideas on that? I saw a failed test email, but haven't had a chance to look at it yet
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: and wendall911, back to your actual question, there isn't an official style guide, but I'm partial to most things in: http://nodeguide.com/style.html
19:56:21 [chewbranca]: that's it from me
19:56:28 [chewbranca]: wow... netsplit
19:56:36 [chewbranca]: did any of my messages get through?
19:56:37 [wendall911]: dch: where is the best place to do this right now? G+, cause hacker news and reddit aren't really producing much relevant or useful discussion lately.
19:56:38 [dch]: lols so thats what happens
19:56:58 [ryan_ramage]: wowza. time machine
19:56:58 [dch]: wendall911: I guess where ever you feel that works
19:57:37 [ryan_ramage]: #action ryan_ramage to check fauxton builds/deploys
19:57:37 [wendall911]: chewbranca: awesome. I think I agree with most of that :)
19:57:58 [chewbranca]: did a flood of messages from me eventually show up?
19:58:21 [ryan_ramage]: chewbranca: yeah. I think they came
19:58:43 [chewbranca]: wendall911: yeah, its kind of a random guide, but it think its a pretty good list
19:58:46 [chewbranca]: ryan_ramage: cool, thanks
19:58:59 [ryan_ramage]: #info offers to mentor are available for GSoC
19:59:05 [chewbranca]: wendall911: yeah good idea
19:59:21 [wendall911]: dch: ok, I'd love to get some attention, just not sure where all the cool kids hang out nowadays
19:59:23 [ryan_ramage]: ok dch, closing GSoC topic
19:59:29 [dch]: ACK.
19:59:43 [dch]: They hang out in #couchdb-dev :D
19:59:45 [wendall911]: hahaha


# 8. open discussion #
19:59:51 [ryan_ramage]: anything else?
19:59:59 [wendall911]: I have one comment
20:00:06 [ryan_ramage]: 1 min closing bell
20:00:13 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: shoot
20:00:13 [wendall911]: I'd like to see the failing test on master get fixed
20:00:37 [wendall911]: so Travis can quit bugging me :)
20:00:50 [wendall911]: no discussion needed
20:01:35 [ryan_ramage]: wendall911: when you say failing test, is it only one that is failing?
20:02:03 [wendall911]: make distcheck
20:02:11 [wendall911]: https://travis-ci.org/apache/couchdb/jobs/6205323
20:02:20 [wendall911]: oh, not a test, just distcheck is failing
20:02:33 [wendall911]: For some reason I thought it was a test
20:02:33 [chewbranca]: ahhh yeah looks like its failing on https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/src/fauxton/tasks/addon/rename.json
20:02:41 [wendall911]: I never run distcheck, only make && make check
20:02:42 [dch]: wendall911: nice piece of work on this btw 
20:03:04 [wendall911]: dch: no problem, just a start :)
20:03:12 [chewbranca]: odd, looks like simon added that file to https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/license.skip#L116
20:03:48 [wendall911]: I have one other makefile issue that got pushed out in 1.3.0 I didn't catch
20:04:03 [wendall911]: I'll file a ticket and get it fixed later today. Was a minor issue with the manifest
20:04:26 [ryan_ramage]: ok gonna close this off


--=_NextPart_DC7E1BB5_1105_4DB3_BAE3_2A6208EB099D--