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From: Hugo Trippaers <HTrippaers@schubergphilis.com>
To: "cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org"
	<cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Packaging in 4.1
Thread-Topic: [DISCUSS] Packaging in 4.1
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Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 08:29:54 +0000
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Hey Sudha,

I'm working on this as much as my $dayjob allows, but I can't give an estim=
ate yet.

This old systems was already broken and did not create any useful packages,=
 so I removed even the last remnants. For the moment I think the team will =
have to work from the maven builds until we have this done and integrated i=
n the 4.1 branch.

Cheers,

Hugo

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sudha Ponnaganti [mailto:sudha.ponnaganti@citrix.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 7:13 AM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Packaging in 4.1
>=20
> Wanted to check when would this be implemented?? Several QA folks
> depend on the packages and need this working.
> We have been still building using waf but today that is also not working =
as
> some references are removed.
>=20
> Is it possible to accelerate this process or leave old way of packaging i=
n place
> till you are done with the new changes
>=20
> Thanks
> /sudha
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rohityadav89@gmail.com [mailto:rohityadav89@gmail.com] On Behalf
> Of Rohit Yadav
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 5:14 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging in 4.1
>=20
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:41 AM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Rohit Yadav <bhaisaab@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us> wrote:
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> So EL6 has pygments 1.1.1 - you require 1.5, so in some ways it's
> >>> worth than clint (clint is in EPEL, but no new version of pygments
> >>> in
> >>> EPEL/CentOS-Extras/CentOS-Plus)
> >>
> >> I want people to use pip to install the cli because it's the easiest
> >> and because rpm/deb packages may have dependency issues like you
> >> mentioned =3D> may not work on all distros, what we can do is when
> >> people install cloudstack-cli rpm or deb, it runs a script that
> >> installs pip (if unavailable) and cloudmonkey. cloudmonkey is pure
> >> python, so the rpm/deb can also ship bundling src tarballs of
> >> cloudmonkey and its dependencies and install from it. Advise best way
> >> of doing this?
> >
> > I guess we won't be installing the CLI via RPMs at least for EL6.
> >
> > You are assuming that they would have internet access when installing
> > - which is not a valid assumption.
> >
> > Honestly, the above idea makes me blanch. A package that reports as
> > installed, and may or may not have installed - may have installed a
> > compromised package (see rubygems.org compromise recently,
> kernel.org,
> > and a number of other site compromises.), or might have installed
> > packages I didn't know about is a Bad Idea (tm) The sysadmin doesn't
> > know you are installing some of the dependencies, there is no record
> > of those packages in the package manager, and there might potentially
> > be conflicts with system packages, a security vulnerability in one of
> > those dependencies wouldn't be caught on audit, etc etc.
>=20
> /facepalm\, it's just a problem of packaging. The package can include cli=
 or
> any other artifact's dependencies, so in case of cli, you bundle both
> pygments and prettytable in cli's rpm/deb. AFAIK all of them are pure pyt=
hon
> so easily installable. The cool people can use pip to install.
>=20
> >
> > And I really don't intend for this to sound like a rant, but the one
> > of the important benefits behind using packages and a package manager
> > is that a sysadmin needs (and often is required to have by government
> > regulations) a single source of truth about the software installed on
> > a machine.
>=20
> No, it's not a rant, I understand.
>=20
> > Developers love things like Maven central, pypi, CPAN, and rubygems,
> > and for good reason, they are fast, flexible, and make their life
> > easy. To a sysadmin managing machines in production, they are
> > anathema; they make system state difficult or impossible to determine,
> > they make audits painful.
>=20
> I just assumed the sysadmin who would install CloudStack, cli and whatnot
> won't be stupid, at the same time I want his life to be less miserable.
>=20
> > In addition they make troubleshooting
> > incredibly difficult. Do I have $foo installed - which version? Are
> > there multiple copies of $foo installed on the system? Which one is
> > actually being called/loaded?
>=20
> Alright, but I'm talking only about the cli, since most users, admins inc=
luded,
> would want it to run on their machines, the installation should be easies=
t,
> that's why I said they can use pip, so it works on their windows, osx, li=
nux,
> bsd boxes and that's why it's pure python (written that way).
>=20
> Regards.
> >
> > --David