Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-cloudstack-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-cloudstack-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 767FFE51C for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 20:03:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 19397 invoked by uid 500); 5 Feb 2013 20:03:09 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-cloudstack-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 19362 invoked by uid 500); 5 Feb 2013 20:03:09 -0000 Mailing-List: contact cloudstack-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 19354 invoked by uid 99); 5 Feb 2013 20:03:09 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Feb 2013 20:03:09 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [109.72.87.137] (HELO smtp01.mail.pcextreme.nl) (109.72.87.137) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Feb 2013 20:03:05 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2a00:f10:11c:ab:7d2d:6d1:8a28:db60] (unknown [IPv6:2a00:f10:11c:ab:7d2d:6d1:8a28:db60]) by smtp01.mail.pcextreme.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6459076353 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 21:02:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51116563.6000906@widodh.nl> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 21:02:43 +0100 From: Wido den Hollander User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging in 4.1 References: <6DE00C9FDF08A34683DF71786C70EBF02F69715B@SBPOMB402.sbp.lan> <7914B38A4445B34AA16EB9F1352942F1012F15861558@SJCPMAILBOX01.citrite.net> <510F8E64.70906@widodh.nl> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On 02/05/2013 06:33 PM, Noa Resare wrote: > I built the latest from the packaging branch. I think it is shaping up > nicely. Some thoughts: > > How would you feel with postponing the config directory changes until 4.2? > While I agree conceptually that they are an improvement, waiting with them > would keep the diff size down, simplifying merge and the focus of > stabilization for 4.1 Yes, I stumbled upon the same while merging master into packaging. It doesn't hurt anybody to keep it in the current shape, the end result will be the same. Wido > > /n > > > > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Wido den Hollander wrote: > >> On 02/04/2013 07:12 AM, Sudha Ponnaganti wrote: >> >>> Wanted to check when would this be implemented?? Several QA folks depend >>> on the packages and need this working. >>> We have been still building using waf but today that is also not working >>> as some references are removed. >>> >>> Is it possible to accelerate this process or leave old way of packaging >>> in place till you are done with the new changes >>> >>> >> I fully understand. As I told David, I think the DEB work is about one day >> of work, but then again, there is something like $dayjob. >> >> What might be even tougher is to get the RPM and DEB packages fully >> synced. cloudstack-common for example should contain exactly the same files >> in the RPM and DEB version, so Hugo and I will have to keep in touch. >> >> I really want to have the DEB packaging working this week, period. >> >> Wido >> >> >> Thanks >>> /sudha >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rohityadav89@gmail.com [mailto:rohityadav89@gmail.com**] On Behalf >>> Of Rohit Yadav >>> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 5:14 PM >>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.**apache.org >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Packaging in 4.1 >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:41 AM, David Nalley wrote: >>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Rohit Yadav wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM, David Nalley wrote: >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So EL6 has pygments 1.1.1 - you require 1.5, so in some ways it's >>>>>> worth than clint (clint is in EPEL, but no new version of pygments >>>>>> in >>>>>> EPEL/CentOS-Extras/CentOS-**Plus) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I want people to use pip to install the cli because it's the easiest >>>>> and because rpm/deb packages may have dependency issues like you >>>>> mentioned => may not work on all distros, what we can do is when >>>>> people install cloudstack-cli rpm or deb, it runs a script that >>>>> installs pip (if unavailable) and cloudmonkey. cloudmonkey is pure >>>>> python, so the rpm/deb can also ship bundling src tarballs of >>>>> cloudmonkey and its dependencies and install from it. Advise best way >>>>> of doing this? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I guess we won't be installing the CLI via RPMs at least for EL6. >>>> >>>> You are assuming that they would have internet access when installing >>>> - which is not a valid assumption. >>>> >>>> Honestly, the above idea makes me blanch. A package that reports as >>>> installed, and may or may not have installed - may have installed a >>>> compromised package (see rubygems.org compromise recently, kernel.org, >>>> and a number of other site compromises.), or might have installed >>>> packages I didn't know about is a Bad Idea (tm) The sysadmin doesn't >>>> know you are installing some of the dependencies, there is no record >>>> of those packages in the package manager, and there might potentially >>>> be conflicts with system packages, a security vulnerability in one of >>>> those dependencies wouldn't be caught on audit, etc etc. >>>> >>> >>> /facepalm\, it's just a problem of packaging. The package can include cli >>> or any other artifact's dependencies, so in case of cli, you bundle both >>> pygments and prettytable in cli's rpm/deb. AFAIK all of them are pure >>> python so easily installable. The cool people can use pip to install. >>> >>> >>>> And I really don't intend for this to sound like a rant, but the one >>>> of the important benefits behind using packages and a package manager >>>> is that a sysadmin needs (and often is required to have by government >>>> regulations) a single source of truth about the software installed on >>>> a machine. >>>> >>> >>> No, it's not a rant, I understand. >>> >>> Developers love things like Maven central, pypi, CPAN, and rubygems, >>>> and for good reason, they are fast, flexible, and make their life >>>> easy. To a sysadmin managing machines in production, they are >>>> anathema; they make system state difficult or impossible to determine, >>>> they make audits painful. >>>> >>> >>> I just assumed the sysadmin who would install CloudStack, cli and whatnot >>> won't be stupid, at the same time I want his life to be less miserable. >>> >>> In addition they make troubleshooting >>>> incredibly difficult. Do I have $foo installed - which version? Are >>>> there multiple copies of $foo installed on the system? Which one is >>>> actually being called/loaded? >>>> >>> >>> Alright, but I'm talking only about the cli, since most users, admins >>> included, would want it to run on their machines, the installation should >>> be easiest, that's why I said they can use pip, so it works on their >>> windows, osx, linux, bsd boxes and that's why it's pure python (written >>> that way). >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>>> >>>> --David >>>> >>> >> > >