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From Edison Su <Edison...@citrix.com>
Subject RE: [DISCUSS] Should cloudstack-dev mailing list strip "Reply-to" header?
Date Thu, 07 Feb 2013 02:29:31 GMT
CC is a great tool for high traffic mailing list, for example, in LKML, it specifically says(http://www.tux.org/lkml/):

Why doesn't <any of the below> answer my mails? Isn't that rude?
If you post to the list and want to make sure a specific individual will see the message,
Cc: that person.

We agreed on CC is acceptable during the previous discussion, but, if mail server strip all
the "reply-to" header, then people who wants to CC other people have to manually put names
on CC list for each mail he/she send out. To me, it's a little bit inconvenient. 
So what's the gain of NOT change "reply-to"? At least, I can see, change "reply-to" will help
other people who wants to CC.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:06 PM
> To: Alex Huang
> Cc: Animesh Chaturvedi; cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Should cloudstack-dev mailing list strip "Reply-to"
> header?
> 
> The previous setting won't respect CC after the CCed guy replied mail.
> I don't think that's useful.
> 
> I truly believe it's developer's responsible to keep track of their own topic,
> but I also think make it easier for developer to keep track is better.
> 
> --Sheng
> 
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Alex Huang <Alex.Huang@citrix.com> wrote:
> > So let me ask the question then.  Right now there's 3 people who believes
> the agreement was cc if you know the recipient you want and it was not to
> change the reply to address.  One person believes it was to change the reply-
> to address.  Anyone else who thought  that was the agreement?
> >
> > Only CC: Animesh, Alex, Brett
> > Change reply-to: Sheng
> >
> > --Alex
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Animesh Chaturvedi
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:52 AM
> >> To: Alex Huang; cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-
> to"
> >> header
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:13 PM
> >> > To: Sheng Yang; Brett Porter
> >> > Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> > Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped
> >> > "Reply-
> >> to"
> >> > header
> >> >
> >> > The current behavior is not the one I've signed up for.  Maybe I
> >> misunderstood
> >> > what was being said myself.  I agree with Brett.  I thought the
> >> > idea was
> >> people
> >> > can cc people directly if they know who they want to get the
> >> > attention of
> >> but
> >> > the mailing list is still the reply-to address.  You are still
> >> > responsible for the topics and tags you're interested in.
> >> > This convention would have made it easier to filter tags and for
> >> > any mail
> >> that
> >> > cced you to a folder.  The recipient should still scan mail
> >> > subjects without
> >> tags
> >> > occasionally but they don't have to worry about missing emails
> >> > because
> >> they
> >> > know full well that if something needs your attention the sender
> >> > would
> >> have
> >> > cced you.
> >> >
> >> > As the way this is implemented, if you and brett replied to an
> >> > email
> >> separately
> >> > and I replied to your email, Brett is not included anyways so again
> >> > it loses
> >> any
> >> > type of advantage you think this implementation gains.
> >> >
> >> > --Alex
> >> [Animesh>] I was also under the impression that  there is no change
> >> to default reply to mailing list and we are just agreeing to cc
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 3:06 PM
> >> > > To: Brett Porter
> >> > > Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped
> >> > > "Reply-
> >> to"
> >> > > header
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Brett,
> >> > >
> >> > > The "reply-to" header is exactly what bothering us. It make us go
> >> > > through every thread to check if it's the one we've involved or not.
> >> > >
> >> > > And, people would able to update their mail client filter to the
> >> > > get the result they want when we're using current policy, but
> >> > > they can't get the mail they involved when we enforce "reploy-to"
> policy.
> >> > >
> >> > > I know it's an enforcement for new member reply in the public,
> >> > > but I believe it's better(and not that hard) to be spontaneously.
> >> > >
> >> > > --Sheng
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Brett Porter <brett@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > > > Hi,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I hate jumping in after the fact, but I wanted to check if that
> >> > > > was the result
> >> > > everyone was expecting? What I understood from the previous
> >> > > thread
> >> was
> >> > > that the community would build up a convention of CCing people to
> >> > > get their attention, not that the default reply-to would be changed.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'm confused by the claim that the list stripped To/CC, as I
> >> > > > can see examples
> >> > > where they were retained when used [1] [2]. When I reply-to-all
> >> > > on those messages, they are also retained as CCs. Is that not
> >> > > what you were
> >> > seeing?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The thing that wasn't retained was a CC of the sender if you
> >> > > > reply-to-all,
> >> > > but a better alternative to that would be for people wishing to
> >> > > have that behaviour to CC themselves on mails they send to the
> >> > > list. I know at least one person said they didn't want to be CC'd
> >> > > on list mails, and they could then choose whether or not that happens.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The reason reply-to the list is the default is so that the
> >> > > > default mode of
> >> > > operation is communicating with the entire community publicly. It
> >> > > is probably most helpful to newer members of the list that aren't
> >> > > yet familiar with the conventions. This change will particularly
> >> > > trip up those that are new to the list, but familiar with other
> >> > > ASF lists where reply-to is predominantly set. If you intend to
> >> > > continue with the change, you may want to consider adding a
> >> > > message trailer that reminds readers of the difference, and
> >> > > points them to the mailing list
> >> > guidelines.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Cheers,
> >> > > > Brett
> >> > > >
> >> > > > [1]
> >> > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
> >> > >
> >>
> dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3CCA+96GG4YVnrYBjMy4yRQwtpqZLKLYeb39n1kq
> >> > > WCf06Yswx_23w@mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> > > > [2]
> >> > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
> >> > > dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3C20130205083909.GC5795@cloud-
> 2.local%3E
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 06/02/2013, at 8:44 AM, Sheng Yang <sheng@yasker.org>
wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> Hi all,
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Based on the discussion in
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
> >> > > >> I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding
a
> >> > > >> reply-to header pointing to the list, which means, from now
> >> > > >> on, every thread you participated, would keep you in the
> >> > > >> thread, by sending mail to you directly(when others are "replying
> all").
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember
to
> >> > > >> reply
> >> > > all.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> <quote>
> >> > > >> Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list
> >> > > >> in the thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you
> >> > > >> used "Reply" to single people involved by mistake.
> >> > > >> </quote>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> I hope this movement would make the communication more
> effective.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and
set
> >> > > >> your mail client's to "Reply All" by default.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --Sheng
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Brett Porter
> >> > > > brett@apache.org
> >> > > > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> >> > > > http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
> >> > > > http://twitter.com/brettporter
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >

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