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From Sebastien Goasguen <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Graduation to a TLP?
Date Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:21:02 GMT

On Feb 13, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Chip Childers <> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 05:54:36PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 5:02 PM, Chip Childers <> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 04:49:55PM +0100, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 4:43 PM, David Nalley <> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Chip Childers
>>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 09:59:39AM -0500, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Chip Childers
>>>>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I started a conversation within cloudstack-private@i.a.o
about the
>>>>>>>> prospect of graduation from the incubator, and have received
>>>>>>>> reactions from everyone that replied.
>>>>>>>> I wanted to kick off the discussion here on the public list,
to see if
>>>>>>>> anyone has any concerns or objections to us starting down
the path of
>>>>>>>> trying to graduate?
>>>>>>>> My general impression is that we have come a long way as
a community
>>>>>>>> since CloudStack entered the incubator. While there are still
rough edges
>>>>>>>> for us to work through over time, we are dealing with our
problems quite
>>>>>>>> well as a community. The simple reason that I believe we
are in a
>>>>>>>> position to ask to graduate, is that we are no longer getting
value from
>>>>>>>> the incubation process!  That's a good thing, because it
means that we
>>>>>>>> have managed to learn quite a bit about the ASF processes,
>>>>>>>> methods and preferences.
>>>>>>>> Thoughts, comments, discussion?
>>>> Are you thinking to do this prior to 4.2 release ?
>>>> With my individual hat on, I think it might be best to put up a strong 4.2
release and then vote for graduation. It would strengthen our case.
>> I meant 4.1
>>> So I think that we don't have to tie this to a specific release.  We've
>>> proven that we know how to do the mechanics of an ASF release now (with
>>> 2 under our belts), and anything we would do to get better at our
>>> community's release processes are purely for our community to be
>>> concerned with (assuming that we don't regress in any of our obligations
>>> as an Apache project).
>>> I also don't think that we really have a case to build.  As I indicated,
>>> the discussion on the private list was positive, and that included
>>> comments from mentors saying that they felt we were ready.
>> Ok, I did not get that from your first email, so this is good news.
>>> IMO, the decision to ask to graduate should be based on what I believe 
>>> the primary goal of incubation is for a podling (assuming the legal,
>>> procedural, policy stuff is sorted): Building an "Open and Diverse
>>> community" [1].  I'd add "the ability to self govern" to that goal.  I
>>> believe that we have achieved this, and, while we will need to
>>> perpetually work to grow and strengthen the community, we aren't getting
>>> value from being in the incubator anymore.
>> IMHO we are fine on the "self-govern", there are still rough edges on the procedures.
> If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that no software
> project is satisfied with it's processes.  ;-)  They are always going to
> be a little rough, and we'll always be improving them.
> My point is that the processes we use, or will use, are an issue for the
> community to deal with.  We aren't getting any special value from being
> a podling as we work on improving them.

Ok, I am in agreement :)

>>> Directly answering the question about "prior to 4.2": I don't think they
>>> are related.  If we are ready and it happens before 4.2, then great.  If
>>> not, then that should be because our process to graduate just took that
>>> long.
>> ok
>>> Thoughts?
>>> -chip
>>> [1]

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