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From Saurav Lahiri <saurav.lah...@sungard.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters, Hosts to a domain
Date Fri, 11 Jan 2013 11:59:12 GMT
Deepti,
>From the functional spec it appears that domains that have been assigned
dedicated pods/cluster/hosts will be restricted to only these dedicated
elements.
It appears to imply that domains can use either share or dedicated elements
but
not both. Or can they use both types?

A use case[ not an entirely hypothetical use case] where I see the
described behaviour might
be a limitation is where a customer would like to have both the offerings
based on the type of
their requirement. They would expect that shared environment would be less
expensive
than dedicated environment and they would want to continue hosting perhaps
their test/dev
environment on the shared environment. But for the business apps they would
like to use the
dedicated environment.

With the current proposal do u think there is a way to achieve this and
provide this is
in a easy to use manner.
Do we want to add a shared/dedicated flag with each vm instance creation
the way Nitin had
suggested.
Just a thought to raise discussion around this use case.

Thoughts??

Thanks
Saurav Lahiri



On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Deepti Dohare <deepti.dohare@citrix.com>wrote:

> Thanks Alex for pointing out. I will update the FS keeping your points in
> mind.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 7:09 AM
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters,
> Hosts
> > to a domain
> >
> > Deepti,
> >
> > Your wiki has references to defunct wiki/bug tracking.  Please correct
> that by
> > moving those into the apache wiki/jira.
> >
> > I don't think the two FSes has enough details for review yet but based on
> > APIs posted, I can see the way it is heading so I want to make some
> > requirements on the direction.  Dedication is not an integral part of
> > cloudstack.  This requirement means the following things.
> >
> > - You should not add dedication as an integral part of the organization
> units
> > such as zone, pod, and cluster.  It should be in steps reflected in the
> API.  For
> > example, from an API standpoint, it should be
> >         - admin adds a pod
> >         - admin dedicates the pod to a domain
> >         - admin enables pod.
> > - UI can makes these three calls on behalf of the admin if you want to
> > introduce a easy step.
> > - You should add a plugin that adds dedication apis and implements a
> > deployment planner interface.
> > - In cloudstack's core code itself, you should modify the following
> things.
> >         - service offering should carry a planner name to use.
> >         - deploy vm code should use the planner that's specified in the
> service
> > offering.
> >
> > --Alex
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Deepti Dohare [mailto:deepti.dohare@citrix.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:33 AM
> > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters,
> > > Hosts to a domain
> > >
> > > Based on the discussion, we have 2 separate features:
> > >
> > > 1. Private pod, cluster, host
> > > 2. VMs on hardware dedicated to a specific account Functional specs
> > > for these 2 features are posted on  Apache CloudStack wiki:
> > >
> > >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/FS+for+VMs+on
> > > +hardware+dedicated+to+a+specific+account
> > >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Dedicated+Reso
> > > urces+-+Private+pod%2C+cluster%2C+host+Functional+Spec
> > >
> > > This is the first draft, and modifications will be done along the way.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Deepti
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hari Kannan [mailto:hari.kannan@citrix.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:30 PM
> > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters,
> > > > Hosts to a domain
> > > >
> > > > Hi Nitin,
> > > >
> > > > Please see inline
> > > >
> > > > Hari
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Nitin Mehta [mailto:Nitin.Mehta@citrix.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:01 PM
> > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters,
> > > Hosts
> > > > to a domain
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 27-Dec-2012, at 4:47 AM, Hari Kannan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Alex,
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no requirement for the end user administer the hardware
-
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the OAMP, I believe the resources are still owner,
> > > > > administered, maintained and provisioned by the root admin - they
> > > > > are simply "reserved" for the said domain/sub-domain
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > But, what would the admin view of all the resources be. Lets say he
> > > > has dedicated Pod P1 to domain D1 and Cluster C1 to domain D2  and
> > > > Host h1 to domain D3 then in this case how will his dashboard look
> like ?
> > > >
> > > > Hari: Perhaps, the issue is we have a single persona called admin
> > > > that
> > > seems
> > > > to be a catch-all. This admin role is actually composed of multiple
> > > > roles - I
> > > see
> > > > the OAMP task as a provider side role - and hence no different than
> > > > today from that perspective - i.e. the domain admin (which is the
> > "consumer"
> > > side
> > > > role) need not have access to the provider side resources - this
> > > > might be a need for Hosting environments, but for a cloud service
> > > > provider as well as private clouds, I don't know if this is a
> > > > requirement. I do agree that it would be a nice to have feature
> though..
> > > >
> > > > > Regarding CRUD/Mice's question - I don't believe that is the
> > > > > intention -
> > > For
> > > > context, Mice wrote " but if further sub-domain is assigned a
> > > > different pod then it cannot access its parent domain's pod. 2.
> > > > Sub-domain and its child domains will have the sole access to that
> > > > new pod. when child domain already has some VMs on parent domain's
> > > > dedicated pod, is it allowed to assign a pod to the child domain? or
> > > > the existing VMs will be migrated to
> > > the
> > > > new pod?"
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I think of this feature more along the lines of what
> > > > > Saurav
> > > wrote
> > > > " Lets say that  the resources on the pod dedicated to the
> > > > child-domain are exhausted and resources on parent pod are
> > > > available. In this case will provisioning of vms for the
> > > > child-domain happen on parent's pod. So essentially provisioning has
> > > > a affinity for local pods if available. And if resources are not
> > > > available on the local pod but available on the parent pod then use
> that.
> > Would it be good to configure this  affinity"
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am afraid affinity is not the right thing to configure. The child
> > > > domain has
> > > the
> > > > expectation and is paying for dedicating resources just to itself.
> > > > If these resources exhaust we should definitely fail deploying his
> > > > vm. Instead if we deploy it in its parent dedicated resources and
> > > > still charge him premium
> > > that
> > > > is not correct. We should set the expectations right.
> > > >
> > > > Hari: I'm open to either choice - dedication can be interpreted
> > > > differently -
> > > If I
> > > > have some resources dedicated, no one else can touch it, it doesn't
> > > > mean I don't get anything more - my preference is to use a global to
> > > > indicate if I
> > > can
> > > > draw from parent pool or not, with the default choice of "yes"
> > > >
> > > > Also what will be the change in usage ? How will we be metering the
> > > > end user here  with dedicated resources?
> > > >
> > > > I also think we need to have a flag in the service offering asking
> > > > the end
> > > user
> > > > if he/she wants to deploy vm on dedicated or shared resources.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hari
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:48 AM
> > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
> > > > > Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >
> > > > > Planners are also plugins.  It just means your dedicated piece
> > > > > needs to
> > > > implement a different planner.
> > > > >
> > > > > We may need some cloud-engine work.  Prachi and I talked about the
> > > idea
> > > > to let the service offering contain the planner cloud-engine should
> > > > use to deploy a vm.  You can explore that idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > But this part is just action acl.  This is the easy part. The more
> > > > > difficult part
> > > is
> > > > the read part.  How do you limit what they can access.  That part
> > > > you need
> > > to
> > > > talk with Prachi about on her design.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there any requirement to let the end user administer the
> > > > > hardware
> > > since
> > > > the hardware is dedicated to them?
> > > > >
> > > > > My problem right now is the list of requirements sent in your
> > > > > email is not
> > > > enough.  We need to send out a list with regard to the following.
> > > > >
> > > > > - OAMP. This means (Operations, Administrations, Maintenance,
> > > > Provisioning) of hardware/physical entities/capacities.  Who is
> > > > ultimately responsible for the OAMP aspects of the dedicated
> > > > resources?  Is it the domain admin/system amdin/ or some new role?
> > > > Depending on this, your interaction with the new ACL work can range
> > > > from low to high.  This needs
> > > to
> > > > be clearly outlined in the requirements.
> > > > > - CRUD operations.  This means (Create, Read, Update, Delete) on
> > > > > virtual
> > > > entities and physical entities.  How does dedication affect those
> > operations?
> > > > For example, questions asked by Mice in another email.  Here, you
> > > > need to gather up the list of virtual entities we have and specify
> > > > what it means for that entities in terms of CRUD.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is not a small feature.  Tread carefully.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Alex
> > > > >
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Prachi Damle [mailto:Prachi.Damle@citrix.com]
> > > > >> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:59 AM
> > > > >> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
> > > > >> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Comments inline.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -Prachi
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: Devdeep Singh [mailto:devdeep.singh@citrix.com]
> > > > >> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 4:16 PM
> > > > >> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
> > > > >> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Some queries inline
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>> From: Prachi Damle [mailto:Prachi.Damle@citrix.com]
> > > > >>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:04 PM
> > > > >>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
> > > > >>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Planners and allocators work on a DeploymentPlan provided
as
> input.
> > > > >>> The caller can specify particular zone, pod, cluster, host,
pool
> > > > >>> etc., to be used for deployment.
> > > > >>> So for enforcing the use of a dedicated pod, caller can set
the
> > > > >>> podId in the plan and planners will search under the specific
pod
> > only.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> If a deploy vm request is from a user belonging to a
domain
> > > > >>>> which has a
> > > > >> dedicated resource, then setting the podid/clusterid etc. will
> work.
> > > > >> However, if I understand correctly there is a requirement that
no
> > > > >> user from outside the domain, should be able >>to use the
> > > > >> dedicated resource. They cannot be restricted by how the planner
> > > > >> is implemented right now. Should the avoid list be used? But
it
> > > > >> doesn't seem like the
> > > right
> > > > use of the field.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Yes avoid set lets you set the zone,pods,clusters,hosts to be
> > > > >> avoided by the planner. It can be used for this purpose.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> There may be some changes necessary (like accepting a list
of
> > > > >>> pods/clusters instead of single Ids) but this design of planners
> > > > >>> should let you enforce the use of dedicated resources without
> > > > >>> major
> > > > >> changes to planners.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> Doesn't this mean that we are changing the core cloudstack
code
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >> achieve dedicated resources features?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This change is not necessary; it is an optimization.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Also, another way is to add a custom planner say
> > > > >> DedicatedResourcePlanner that will search for only dedicated
> > > > >> resources
> > > > for the given account.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>> From: Devdeep Singh [mailto:devdeep.singh@citrix.com]
> > > > >>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:58 PM
> > > > >>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
> > > > >>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Hi Alex,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I assume some apis will be added for letting an admin dedicate
a
> > > > >>> pod/cluster etc to a domain. This can be contained in a plugin.
> > > > >>> However, for enforcing that a dedicated resource is picked
up
> > > > >>> for servicing deploy vm requests from a user; wouldn't planners
> > > > >>> and allocators have to be updated to take care of this?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Regards,
> > > > >>> Devdeep
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>> From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
> > > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:21 PM
> > > > >>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate
Pods,
> > > > >>>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Deepti,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> As Chiradeep pointed out, you should get in contact with
Prachi.
> > > > >>>> You should plan on this after the ACL change or you can
help
> > > > >>>> out on the ACL
> > > > >>> change.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> For this feature, you really need to think about the
stats
> > > > >>>> collection side of this because you'll need to provide
a lot of
> > > > >>>> warnings about being near capacity so people can plan
> accordingly.
> > > > >>>> It cannot be a case of the dedicated resource explodes
and then
> > > > >>>> they go and work on expanding it.  So you should also
talk with
> > > > >>>> Murali about how to do alerts in
> > > > >>> his new notification system.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> And then in your spec, you need to plan out how to do
this in a
> > > > >>>> plugin architecture and not modify the core code.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --Alex
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>> From: Deepti Dohare [mailto:deepti.dohare@citrix.com]
> > > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:32 AM
> > > > >>>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate
Pods,
> > > > >>>>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Hi Mice,
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Once a new pod is dedicated to the child-domain,
 deployment
> > > > >>>>> of the new VMs will happen only  in the new pod.
> > > > >>>>> The existing VMs will keep running on parent-domain's
pod.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Do you have any other suggestion on this.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> - Deepti
> > > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >>>>>> From: Mice Xia [mailto:weiran.xia1@gmail.com]
> > > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:52 PM
> > > > >>>>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >>>>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate
Pods,
> > > > >>>>>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> but if further sub-domain is assigned a different
pod then it
> > > > >>>>>> cannot access
> > > > >>>>> its
> > > > >>>>>> parent domain's pod. 2. Sub-domain and its child
domains will
> > > > >>>>>> have the sole access to that new pod.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> when child domain already has some VMs on parent
domain's
> > > > >>>>>> dedicated pod, is it allowed to assign a pod
to the child
> domain?
> > > > >>>>>> or the existing VMs
> > > > >>>>> will
> > > > >>>>>> be migrated to the new pod?
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> mice
>
>
>

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