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From Chip Childers <chip.child...@sungard.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters, Hosts to a domain
Date Tue, 15 Jan 2013 18:33:48 GMT
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Alex Huang <Alex.Huang@citrix.com> wrote:
> You can introduce your own dedicate apis to dedicate pods clusters and host instead of
jam them into update apis.
>
> --Alex

+1

>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Deepti Dohare
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 9:48 PM
>> To: Alex Huang
>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters, Hosts
>> to a domain
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>> As you said, dedication apis should be added as a part of plugin, but here my
>> concern is , when we are dedicating a pod/cluster/host, I can use existing
>> apis  (eg. updatePod or updateCluster) . How will I do that in plugins?
>> Please clarify.
>>
>> -Deepti
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Alex Huang
>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 10:11 AM
>> > To: Deepti Dohare
>> > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters, Hosts
>> > to a domain
>> >
>> > If anything I said doesn't make sense, don't hesitate to ask.
>> >
>> > --Alex
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Deepti Dohare
>> > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 8:20 PM
>> > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > Cc: Alex Huang
>> > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters,
>> > > Hosts to a domain
>> > >
>> > > Thanks Alex for pointing out. I will update the FS keeping your points
in
>> > mind.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 7:09 AM
>> > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods, Clusters,
>> > > > Hosts to a domain
>> > > >
>> > > > Deepti,
>> > > >
>> > > > Your wiki has references to defunct wiki/bug tracking.  Please
>> > > > correct that
>> > > by
>> > > > moving those into the apache wiki/jira.
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't think the two FSes has enough details for review yet but
>> > > > based on APIs posted, I can see the way it is heading so I want to
>> > > > make some requirements on the direction.  Dedication is not an
>> > > > integral part of cloudstack.  This requirement means the following
>> things.
>> > > >
>> > > > - You should not add dedication as an integral part of the
>> > > > organization units such as zone, pod, and cluster.  It should be in
steps
>> > reflected in the API.
>> > > For
>> > > > example, from an API standpoint, it should be
>> > > >         - admin adds a pod
>> > > >         - admin dedicates the pod to a domain
>> > > >         - admin enables pod.
>> > > > - UI can makes these three calls on behalf of the admin if you want
>> > > > to introduce a easy step.
>> > > > - You should add a plugin that adds dedication apis and implements
a
>> > > > deployment planner interface.
>> > > > - In cloudstack's core code itself, you should modify the following
things.
>> > > >         - service offering should carry a planner name to use.
>> > > >         - deploy vm code should use the planner that's specified in
>> > > > the service offering.
>> > > >
>> > > > --Alex
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > From: Deepti Dohare [mailto:deepti.dohare@citrix.com]
>> > > > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:33 AM
>> > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Based on the discussion, we have 2 separate features:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 1. Private pod, cluster, host
>> > > > > 2. VMs on hardware dedicated to a specific account Functional
>> > > > > specs for these 2 features are posted on  Apache CloudStack wiki:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/FS+for+VMs+on
>> > > > > +hardware+dedicated+to+a+specific+account
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Dedicated+Reso
>> > > > > urces+-+Private+pod%2C+cluster%2C+host+Functional+Spec
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This is the first draft, and modifications will be done along
the way.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks
>> > > > > Deepti
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > From: Hari Kannan [mailto:hari.kannan@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:30 PM
>> > > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > > Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi Nitin,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Please see inline
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hari
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > From: Nitin Mehta [mailto:Nitin.Mehta@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:01 PM
>> > > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > > Clusters,
>> > > > > Hosts
>> > > > > > to a domain
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On 27-Dec-2012, at 4:47 AM, Hari Kannan wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hi Alex,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > There is no requirement for the end user administer
the
>> > > > > > > hardware -
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Regarding the OAMP, I believe the resources are still
owner,
>> > > > > > > administered, maintained and provisioned by the root
admin -
>> > > > > > > they are simply "reserved" for the said domain/sub-domain
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > But, what would the admin view of all the resources be.
Lets say
>> > > > > > he has dedicated Pod P1 to domain D1 and Cluster C1 to domain
D2
>> > > > > > and Host h1 to domain D3 then in this case how will his
dashboard
>> > look like ?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hari: Perhaps, the issue is we have a single persona called
>> > > > > > admin that
>> > > > > seems
>> > > > > > to be a catch-all. This admin role is actually composed
of
>> > > > > > multiple roles - I
>> > > > > see
>> > > > > > the OAMP task as a provider side role - and hence no different
>> > > > > > than today from that perspective - i.e. the domain admin
(which
>> > > > > > is the
>> > > > "consumer"
>> > > > > side
>> > > > > > role) need not have access to the provider side resources
- this
>> > > > > > might be a need for Hosting environments, but for a cloud
>> > > > > > service provider as well as private clouds, I don't know
if this
>> > > > > > is a requirement. I do agree that it would be a nice to
have feature
>> > though..
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Regarding CRUD/Mice's question - I don't believe that
is the
>> > > > > > > intention -
>> > > > > For
>> > > > > > context, Mice wrote " but if further sub-domain is assigned
a
>> > > > > > different pod then it cannot access its parent domain's
pod. 2.
>> > > > > > Sub-domain and its child domains will have the sole access
to
>> > > > > > that new pod. when child domain already has some VMs on
parent
>> > > > > > domain's dedicated pod, is it allowed to assign a pod to
the
>> > > > > > child domain? or the existing VMs will be migrated to
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > new pod?"
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > However, I think of this feature more along the lines
of what
>> > > > > > > Saurav
>> > > > > wrote
>> > > > > > " Lets say that  the resources on the pod dedicated to the
>> > > > > > child-domain are exhausted and resources on parent pod are
>> > > > > > available. In this case will provisioning of vms for the
>> > > > > > child-domain happen on parent's pod. So essentially provisioning
>> > > > > > has a affinity for local pods if available. And if resources
are
>> > > > > > not available on the local pod but available on the parent
pod then
>> > use that.
>> > > > Would it be good to configure this  affinity"
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I am afraid affinity is not the right thing to configure.
The
>> > > > > > child domain has
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > expectation and is paying for dedicating resources just
to itself.
>> > > > > > If these resources exhaust we should definitely fail deploying
>> > > > > > his vm. Instead if we deploy it in its parent dedicated
>> > > > > > resources and still charge him premium
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > is not correct. We should set the expectations right.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hari: I'm open to either choice - dedication can be interpreted
>> > > > > > differently -
>> > > > > If I
>> > > > > > have some resources dedicated, no one else can touch it,
it
>> > > > > > doesn't mean I don't get anything more - my preference is
to use
>> > > > > > a global to indicate if I
>> > > > > can
>> > > > > > draw from parent pool or not, with the default choice of
"yes"
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Also what will be the change in usage ? How will we be metering
>> > > > > > the end user here  with dedicated resources?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I also think we need to have a flag in the service offering
>> > > > > > asking the end
>> > > > > user
>> > > > > > if he/she wants to deploy vm on dedicated or shared resources.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hari
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > > From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:48 AM
>> > > > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate
Pods,
>> > > > > > > Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Planners are also plugins.  It just means your dedicated
piece
>> > > > > > > needs to
>> > > > > > implement a different planner.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > We may need some cloud-engine work.  Prachi and I talked
about
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > idea
>> > > > > > to let the service offering contain the planner cloud-engine
>> > > > > > should use to deploy a vm.  You can explore that idea.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > But this part is just action acl.  This is the easy
part. The
>> > > > > > > more difficult part
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > the read part.  How do you limit what they can access. 
That
>> > > > > > part you need
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > talk with Prachi about on her design.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Is there any requirement to let the end user administer
the
>> > > > > > > hardware
>> > > > > since
>> > > > > > the hardware is dedicated to them?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > My problem right now is the list of requirements sent
in your
>> > > > > > > email is not
>> > > > > > enough.  We need to send out a list with regard to the following.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > - OAMP. This means (Operations, Administrations, Maintenance,
>> > > > > > Provisioning) of hardware/physical entities/capacities.
 Who is
>> > > > > > ultimately responsible for the OAMP aspects of the dedicated
>> > > > > > resources?  Is it the domain admin/system amdin/ or some
new role?
>> > > > > > Depending on this, your interaction with the new ACL work
can
>> > > > > > range from low to high.  This needs
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > be clearly outlined in the requirements.
>> > > > > > > - CRUD operations.  This means (Create, Read, Update,
Delete)
>> > > > > > > on virtual
>> > > > > > entities and physical entities.  How does dedication affect
>> > > > > > those
>> > > > operations?
>> > > > > > For example, questions asked by Mice in another email. 
Here,
>> > > > > > you need to gather up the list of virtual entities we have
and
>> > > > > > specify what it means for that entities in terms of CRUD.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > This is not a small feature.  Tread carefully.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > --Alex
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >> From: Prachi Damle [mailto:Prachi.Damle@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > >> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:59 AM
>> > > > > > >> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate
Pods,
>> > > > > > >> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Comments inline.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> -Prachi
>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >> From: Devdeep Singh [mailto:devdeep.singh@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > >> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 4:16 PM
>> > > > > > >> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources: Dedicate
Pods,
>> > > > > > >> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Some queries inline
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >>> From: Prachi Damle [mailto:Prachi.Damle@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:04 PM
>> > > > > > >>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources:
Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > > >>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> Planners and allocators work on a DeploymentPlan
provided as
>> > > input.
>> > > > > > >>> The caller can specify particular zone, pod,
cluster, host,
>> > > > > > >>> pool etc., to be used for deployment.
>> > > > > > >>> So for enforcing the use of a dedicated pod,
caller can set
>> > > > > > >>> the podId in the plan and planners will search
under the
>> > > > > > >>> specific pod
>> > > > only.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>>> If a deploy vm request is from a user belonging
to a domain
>> > > > > > >>>> which has a
>> > > > > > >> dedicated resource, then setting the podid/clusterid
etc. will
>> work.
>> > > > > > >> However, if I understand correctly there is a requirement
>> > > > > > >> that no user from outside the domain, should be
able >>to use
>> > > > > > >> the dedicated resource. They cannot be restricted
by how the
>> > > > > > >> planner is implemented right now. Should the avoid
list be
>> > > > > > >> used? But it doesn't seem like the
>> > > > > right
>> > > > > > use of the field.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Yes avoid set lets you set the zone,pods,clusters,hosts
to be
>> > > > > > >> avoided by the planner. It can be used for this
purpose.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> There may be some changes necessary (like accepting
a list
>> > > > > > >>> of pods/clusters instead of single Ids) but
this design of
>> > > > > > >>> planners should let you enforce the use of
dedicated
>> > > > > > >>> resources without major
>> > > > > > >> changes to planners.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>>> Doesn't this mean that we are changing
the core cloudstack
>> > > > > > >>>> code to
>> > > > > > >> achieve dedicated resources features?
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> This change is not necessary; it is an optimization.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Also, another way is to add a custom planner say
>> > > > > > >> DedicatedResourcePlanner that will search for only
dedicated
>> > > > > > >> resources
>> > > > > > for the given account.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >>> From: Devdeep Singh [mailto:devdeep.singh@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > >>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 2:58 PM
>> > > > > > >>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources:
Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > > >>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> Hi Alex,
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> I assume some apis will be added for letting
an admin
>> > > > > > >>> dedicate a pod/cluster etc to a domain. This
can be contained in
>> a
>> > plugin.
>> > > > > > >>> However, for enforcing that a dedicated resource
is picked
>> > > > > > >>> up for servicing deploy vm requests from a
user; wouldn't
>> > > > > > >>> planners and allocators have to be updated
to take care of this?
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>> Regards,
>> > > > > > >>> Devdeep
>> > > > > > >>>
>> > > > > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >>>> From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:21
PM
>> > > > > > >>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources:
Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > > >>>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> Deepti,
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> As Chiradeep pointed out, you should get
in contact with
>> Prachi.
>> > > > > > >>>> You should plan on this after the ACL change
or you can
>> > > > > > >>>> help out on the ACL
>> > > > > > >>> change.
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> For this feature, you really need to think
about the stats
>> > > > > > >>>> collection side of this because you'll
need to provide a
>> > > > > > >>>> lot of warnings about being near capacity
so people can plan
>> > accordingly.
>> > > > > > >>>> It cannot be a case of the dedicated resource
explodes and
>> > > > > > >>>> then they go and work on expanding it.
 So you should also
>> > > > > > >>>> talk with Murali about how to do alerts
in
>> > > > > > >>> his new notification system.
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> And then in your spec, you need to plan
out how to do this
>> > > > > > >>>> in a plugin architecture and not modify
the core code.
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>> --Alex
>> > > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >>>>> From: Deepti Dohare [mailto:deepti.dohare@citrix.com]
>> > > > > > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:32
AM
>> > > > > > >>>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated Resources:
Dedicate Pods,
>> > > > > > >>>>> Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> Hi Mice,
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> Once a new pod is dedicated to the
child-domain,
>> > > > > > >>>>> deployment of the new VMs will happen
only  in the new
>> pod.
>> > > > > > >>>>> The existing VMs will keep running
on parent-domain's pod.
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> Do you have any other suggestion on
this.
>> > > > > > >>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>> - Deepti
>> > > > > > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >>>>>> From: Mice Xia [mailto:weiran.xia1@gmail.com]
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012
4:52 PM
>> > > > > > >>>>>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Dedicated
Resources: Dedicate
>> > > > > > >>>>>> Pods, Clusters, Hosts to a domain
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> but if further sub-domain is assigned
a different pod
>> > > > > > >>>>>> then it cannot access
>> > > > > > >>>>> its
>> > > > > > >>>>>> parent domain's pod. 2. Sub-domain
and its child domains
>> > > > > > >>>>>> will have the sole access to that
new pod.
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> when child domain already has some
VMs on parent
>> > domain's
>> > > > > > >>>>>> dedicated pod, is it allowed to
assign a pod to the child
>> > domain?
>> > > > > > >>>>>> or the existing VMs
>> > > > > > >>>>> will
>> > > > > > >>>>>> be migrated to the new pod?
>> > > > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > > > >>>>>> mice
>
>

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