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From Ahmad Emneina <Ahmad.Emne...@citrix.com>
Subject Re: [ASFCS40] Redirect cloudstack.org and docs.cloudstack.org as part of the 4.0 "release"
Date Thu, 04 Oct 2012 22:26:49 GMT
Ideally the old links then redirect to the ASF endpoints for some time.

On 10/4/12 3:23 PM, "Alex Huang" <Alex.Huang@citrix.com> wrote:

>+1 on one clear destination.  If it has to start fresh, then it has to
>start fresh.  Let's identify the content to move and move them over.
>
>--Alex
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chip Childers [mailto:chip.childers@sungard.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 1:49 PM
>> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [ASFCS40] Redirect cloudstack.org and docs.cloudstack.org
>>as
>> part of the 4.0 "release"
>> 
>> Let me start by saying that I know how hard it is to build up a site's
>>traffic and
>> user base.  You guys did a great job with that.  However, I'm of the
>>opinion
>> that we need to make some big changes in a very short timeline.  It's
>>part of
>> the change from Citrix / Cloud.com to ASF.
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Mark Hinkle <Mark.Hinkle@citrix.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I think it's a good idea however I think there are a few things you
>>might
>> want to consider:
>> >
>> > CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> gets about 500,000 unique
>>visits a
>> month though that's also partially because of the content on the current
>> pages e.g. forums, blog, videos, directory. etc.
>> > Also CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> as it stands get's about
>>125,000
>> visits a month from organic search and tens of thousands of links to
>>direct
>> pages, you should 301 redirect the old to the new so all the search and
>>hard
>> link folks don't get 404'd.  You'll need someone to map all the
>>redirects and
>> it's not trivial.
>> > Also If you break all those links traffic will drop pretty
>>significantly IMHO
>> until Google re-indexes and all the old content and then the number of
>> people that would normally find out about
>> CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> through search wouldn't. Also the
>> content on the incubator site is pretty good for the hard-hitting
>>sysadmin or
>> open source guys but new users might be a little intimidated.
>> 
>> You are describing 2 issues here:  SEO optimization for certain terms
>>that
>> leads people to CloudStack, and content that is considered to be
>>valuable
>> being transitioned.
>> 
>> I think that we should consider this an opportunity to clean up a bit.
>>  While there is certainly lots of content on cloudstack.org, it's
>>actually pretty
>> hard to navigate IMO.  I'd rather see us cut over, and have an
>>organized plan
>> to review and migrate content into a newer / simpler structure.  To make
>> sure that we don't completely fail the users, we could setup a redirect
>>page
>> instead of the default 404 on the ASF web servers, that points to the
>> project's new index page.
>> 
>> Personally, SEO optimization isn't at the top of my list of
>>considerations right
>> now.  If we take the time to move content over cleanly, the search
>>engines
>> will sort themselves out.
>> 
>> > I think we should also answer the following questions:
>> >
>> > -  What should we do with the old content is do you want to keep it or
>> move it to something like
>>CloudStackUsers.org<http://CloudStackUsers.org>
>> or the like?
>> >  - Apache Incubator doesn't have forums so do you abandon the forums?
>> > (There are over 11,000 registered forum users)
>> 
>> I don't believe that a forum is the right method of managing user
>>interaction
>> with the project.  It adds to the confusion about how to engage with the
>> project community, and frankly isn't that active with project members
>>these
>> days.  We should point people to the cloudstack-users@i.a.o list, and
>> perhaps to an archive search service (markmail.org).
>> 
>> >  - Do you want to have a blog, move it to a new place or give it up?
>> 
>> I think we should consider doing 2 things here.  First, the project
>>needs a
>> news page (which is has).  Second, the work to get a planet server
>>going for
>> the CS community can really serve as a much more open alternative.
>> Perhaps the Citrix community managers that post to the current
>> cloudstack.org blog should have a home somewhere else, that gets
>> aggregated into the CS planet?  We should also consider adding an RSS
>>feed
>> version of the new site's news page.
>> 
>> >  - Should we still announce events and do sign-ups (we have thousands
>>of
>> historical sign-ups for Build a Cloud Days and user conferences and the
>> capability to send invites to past attendees based on geography etc.
>>baked
>> into the site).
>> 
>> Announcements of community events are best done via the users and dev
>> lists.  Perhaps an email blast explaining the changes, and pointing
>>users to
>> instructions for how to signup for the lists would be a good way to
>>force the
>> transition?
>> 
>> > - There are 30,000+ people signed up for a newsletter on
>> CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> when we donated the project to the
>> ASF I stopped sending updates. Do you want to start doing that to help
>> promote the project, migrate to some new system or some other option.
>> 
>> Same suggestion as above.  It's time to point them to either (1) Citrix
>> commercial information sources or (2) ACS information sources.
>> 
>> > My suggestion would be:
>> >
>> > - Alias a new community approved domain to the existing site eg
>> CloudStackUsers.org<http://CloudStackUsers.org>. test it to make sure it
>> works and nothing's hard-coded or broken.
>> 
>> I think that this adds to the confusion really...  We should instead
>>migrate the
>> content over time, leaving behind content that's out of date.
>> 
>> > - Really make sure that the incubator site experience is good (my pet
>> > peeve is that there is no common navigation to get from bugs to docs
>> > to the main site)
>> 
>> I'd love if we could get someone to help make the current ASF site
>>better,
>> but that can happen in time.
>> 
>> > - Then point CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> to the Incubator
>> > site - http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/
>> 
>> I think that should be done almost immediately...  after dealing with
>>the 404
>> fix noted above.
>> 
>> > - Divide content for Apache CloudStack development to
>> CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> and really work on the user
>> experience for developers and start migrating content systematically to
>> Apache.
>> > - Come to consensus on what to do with the old content on CloudStack
>>(i'll
>> volunteer to keep it maintained and collaborate with whomever the PPMC
>> wants to give access to is cool with me) until we decide.
>> >
>> > Thoughts, flames, etc.?
>> >
>> > Regards, Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Mark R. Hinkle
>> > Senior Director, Cloud Computing Community Citrix Systems
>> > p: 919.228.8049
>> > m: 919.522.3520
>> > e: mark.hinkle@citrix.com<mailto:mark.hinkle@citrix.com>
>> > twitter: @mrhinkle
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Oct 3, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Chip Childers
>> <chip.childers@sungard.com<mailto:chip.childers@sungard.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > All,
>> >
>> > I'd like to propose that Citrix (if willing) redirect
>> cloudstack.org<http://cloudstack.org>
>> > to http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/ and
>> docs.cloudstack.org<http://docs.cloudstack.org> to
>> > the appropriate sub-page of the ASF site.
>> >
>> > Specifically, I'd like to propose that this happens as fast as
>> > possible.  The impact will be a simplified experience for users, once
>> > we get through our first official ASF release.
>> >
>> > I don't see any reason to wait...
>> >
>> > Any concerns?  Can someone make this happen?
>> >
>> > -chip
>> >
>


-- 
Æ




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