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From Chip Childers <chip.child...@sungard.com>
Subject Re: [ASFCS40] Redirect cloudstack.org and docs.cloudstack.org as part of the 4.0 "release"
Date Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:49:01 GMT
Let me start by saying that I know how hard it is to build up a site's
traffic and user base.  You guys did a great job with that.  However,
I'm of the opinion that we need to make some big changes in a very
short timeline.  It's part of the change from Citrix / Cloud.com to
ASF.

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Mark Hinkle <Mark.Hinkle@citrix.com> wrote:
> I think it's a good idea however I think there are a few things you might want to consider:
>
> CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> gets about 500,000 unique visits a month
though that's also partially because of the content on the current pages e.g. forums, blog,
videos, directory. etc.
> Also CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> as it stands get's about 125,000 visits
a month from organic search and tens of thousands of links to direct pages, you should 301
redirect the old to the new so all the search and hard link folks don't get 404'd.  You'll
need someone to map all the redirects and it's not trivial.
> Also If you break all those links traffic will drop pretty significantly IMHO until Google
re-indexes and all the old content and then the number of people that would normally find
out about CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> through search wouldn't. Also the content
on the incubator site is pretty good for the hard-hitting sysadmin or open source guys but
new users might be a little intimidated.

You are describing 2 issues here:  SEO optimization for certain terms
that leads people to CloudStack, and content that is considered to be
valuable being transitioned.

I think that we should consider this an opportunity to clean up a bit.
 While there is certainly lots of content on cloudstack.org, it's
actually pretty hard to navigate IMO.  I'd rather see us cut over, and
have an organized plan to review and migrate content into a newer /
simpler structure.  To make sure that we don't completely fail the
users, we could setup a redirect page instead of the default 404 on
the ASF web servers, that points to the project's new index page.

Personally, SEO optimization isn't at the top of my list of
considerations right now.  If we take the time to move content over
cleanly, the search engines will sort themselves out.

> I think we should also answer the following questions:
>
> -  What should we do with the old content is do you want to keep it or move it to something
like CloudStackUsers.org<http://CloudStackUsers.org> or the like?
>  - Apache Incubator doesn't have forums so do you abandon the forums? (There are over
11,000 registered forum users)

I don't believe that a forum is the right method of managing user
interaction with the project.  It adds to the confusion about how to
engage with the project community, and frankly isn't that active with
project members these days.  We should point people to the
cloudstack-users@i.a.o list, and perhaps to an archive search service
(markmail.org).

>  - Do you want to have a blog, move it to a new place or give it up?

I think we should consider doing 2 things here.  First, the project
needs a news page (which is has).  Second, the work to get a planet
server going for the CS community can really serve as a much more open
alternative.  Perhaps the Citrix community managers that post to the
current cloudstack.org blog should have a home somewhere else, that
gets aggregated into the CS planet?  We should also consider adding an
RSS feed version of the new site's news page.

>  - Should we still announce events and do sign-ups (we have thousands of historical sign-ups
for Build a Cloud Days and user conferences and the capability to send invites to past attendees
based on geography etc. baked into the site).

Announcements of community events are best done via the users and dev
lists.  Perhaps an email blast explaining the changes, and pointing
users to instructions for how to signup for the lists would be a good
way to force the transition?

> - There are 30,000+ people signed up for a newsletter on  CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org>
when we donated the project to the ASF I stopped sending updates. Do you want to start doing
that to help promote the project, migrate to some new system or some other option.

Same suggestion as above.  It's time to point them to either (1)
Citrix commercial information sources or (2) ACS information sources.

> My suggestion would be:
>
> - Alias a new community approved domain to the existing site eg CloudStackUsers.org<http://CloudStackUsers.org>.
test it to make sure it works and nothing's hard-coded or broken.

I think that this adds to the confusion really...  We should instead
migrate the content over time, leaving behind content that's out of
date.

> - Really make sure that the incubator site experience is good (my pet peeve is that there
is no common navigation to get from bugs to docs to the main site)

I'd love if we could get someone to help make the current ASF site
better, but that can happen in time.

> - Then point CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org> to the Incubator site - http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/

I think that should be done almost immediately...  after dealing with
the 404 fix noted above.

> - Divide content for Apache CloudStack development to CloudStack.org<http://CloudStack.org>
and really work on the user experience for developers and start migrating content systematically
to Apache.
> - Come to consensus on what to do with the old content on CloudStack (i'll volunteer
to keep it maintained and collaborate with whomever the PPMC wants to give access to is cool
with me) until we decide.
>
> Thoughts, flames, etc.?
>
> Regards, Mark
>
>
>
> Mark R. Hinkle
> Senior Director, Cloud Computing Community
> Citrix Systems
> p: 919.228.8049
> m: 919.522.3520
> e: mark.hinkle@citrix.com<mailto:mark.hinkle@citrix.com>
> twitter: @mrhinkle
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Chip Childers <chip.childers@sungard.com<mailto:chip.childers@sungard.com>>
wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I'd like to propose that Citrix (if willing) redirect cloudstack.org<http://cloudstack.org>
> to http://incubator.apache.org/cloudstack/ and docs.cloudstack.org<http://docs.cloudstack.org>
to
> the appropriate sub-page of the ASF site.
>
> Specifically, I'd like to propose that this happens as fast as
> possible.  The impact will be a simplified experience for users, once
> we get through our first official ASF release.
>
> I don't see any reason to wait...
>
> Any concerns?  Can someone make this happen?
>
> -chip
>

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