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Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 18:14:04 +0100
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 <CA+Y+444f=9ZXt2Kf9fqB6pAk2qw2vcr0385ze7dFq9kxuu19Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Github integration
From: Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org>
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
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I'm not aware of any debate to be had. As CloudStack will be a trademark of
the foundation, it needs to be used responsibly by third parties. The
policy outlines the most common case to take into consideration. Any other
questions can be taken to the trademarks@ list.

If another very similar project came along, and they decided to call
themselves "CloudStack" and they set up a project page on GitHub, then this
would be an obvious problem. And we would reach out to them and we would
ask them to change their name.

And if someone comes along to provide 3rd party services that compliment
CloudStack we will ask them to use our mark responsibly. That is, to make
it clear that "Apache CloudStack" and "CloudStack" are trademarks, and that
they are not affiliated with the foundation.

Obviously, this is not the case. We're talking about cleaning up the
original project pages. But the reasons for doing so are the same.

These concerns apply to the Citrix repository as much as any other
organisation.

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Donal Lafferty
<donal.lafferty@citrix.com>wrote:

> Hi Noah,
>
> I'm not the guy to ask about shifting the Citrix CloudPlatform repo to a
> new URL.  However, everyone will be eager to find a bright line solution
> that avoids a debate over the scope of Apache's trademarks!
>
> With that in mind, can someone else help address these points?
>
> Cheers,
>
> DL
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > Sent: 29 September 2012 17:28
> > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Github integration
> >
> > Apache, Apache CloudStack, and CloudStack are all trademarks of the
> Apache
> > Software Foundation. (Or they will be once CloudStack graduates.)
> Therefor,
> > we have to be careful about using them. And third parties have to be
> careful
> > about using them. Third parties should not cause any confusion about
> what is
> > and what isn't a part of the Apache CloudStack project.
> >
> > You can read more our policy here:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
> >
> > The point I want to make, however, is that it's a little more than just
> some
> > virtual paths in a Git repos here.
> >
> > Some ways in which the current CloudStack account on GitHub are
> > problematic:
> >
> >    - CloudStack is used as the account name, in both the URL and the UI
> >    - The account advertises itself as the "CloudStack Project"
> >    - There is a repository itself called "CloudStack"
> >    - There is a link to http://cloudstack.org
> >    - The word "CloudStack" is frequently used in repository names
> >    - There isn't a single mention of Apache anywhere on the page
> >
> > Now, admittedly, all of these things exist because this account used to
> be the
> > home of CloudStack. It is not as if someone has come along after the
> fact,
> > and is now using our name irresponsibly. But they still present an issue,
> > because there is significant scope for confusion here.
> >
> > I am assuming there are already plans in place to retire the original
> repository
> > as part of the move to Apache. This should, of course, include a
> rebranding,
> > and a reworking of this GitHub account. Do you know what the timeline is
> for
> > that?
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Donal Lafferty
> > <donal.lafferty@citrix.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Noah,
> > >
> > > You raise an interesting point about trademarks.  Are virtual paths in
> > > github repos considered a mark of authenticity?  If we go by mere name
> > > matching, I see a possibility .  However, Apache itself establishes a
> > > different mark of authenticity by placing 'apache' at the root of
> > > their virtual path.  AFAIK, UK courts expect the average consumer to
> > > be able to grasp these subtleties.  I expect this is because they
> > > don't like impediments to commerce.  Also, they'll have to take a
> > > narrow view of trademark to avoid overlapping claims from github
> itself.
> > >
> > > WRT emails for all GIT pulls, wouldn't broadcasting pull requests
> > > clutter the dev mailing list?
> > >
> > > DL
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > > Sent: 29 September 2012 15:27
> > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > > >
> > > > The CloudStack account on Github needs to be cleaned up then.
> > > > Perhaps rename it so that it is clear the account is operated by
> > > > Citrix. At the
> > > moment,
> > > > it looks like a canonical source for Apache CloudStack. Obviously,
> > > > this
> > > isn't
> > > > okay. "CloudStack" is (or will be) a trademark of the ASF, and needs
> > > > to
> > > be
> > > > used appropriately.
> > > >
> > > > Additionally, the README.md in the CloudStack repository should
> > > > probably be updated to outline a pull request workflow for GitHub
> > > > users. I presume that pull requests on GitHub send a mail to the
> > > > mailing list? If not, I
> > > can help
> > > > to get that set up.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Donal Lafferty
> > > > <donal.lafferty@citrix.com>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Non-authoritative answer:
> > > > >
> > > > > ASF repo:
> > > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > > > ASF mirror: http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > > >
> > > > > Citrix repo: http://github.com/CloudStack (pre ASF and forks for
> > > > > customer
> > > > > support)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The wiki and Apache CMS sites should reference ASF repo.  First
> > > > > priority was to move information to the Apache wiki, so not all
> > > > > pages may yet be updated.
> > > > >
> > > > > DL
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Noah Slater [mailto:nslater@tumbolia.org]
> > > > > > Sent: 29 September 2012 10:18
> > > > > > To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Github integration
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just following up on this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could someone explain the difference between:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    - http://github.com/CloudStack
> > > > > >    - http://github.com/apache/incubator-cloudstack
> > > > > >    -
> > > > > > https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-cloudstack.git
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do we really have three repositories?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are they all writable?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is any of this documented anywhere?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Noah Slater
> > > > > > <nslater@tumbolia.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What's the deal with Github and CloudStack?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I notice things like this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://github.com/CloudStack/hudsonbuild/pull/1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seems that there is write activity, PRs, etc, going on over
> there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is this stuff mirrored back to the ASF repos, or is it
> > > > > > > completely
> > > > > separate?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Very curious!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > NS
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > NS
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > NS
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>


-- 
NS

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