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From David Boxenhorn <da...@citypath.com>
Subject Re: Announcements List
Date Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:08:02 GMT
Edward, by "noise" I mean talk between users, or even developers, that's not
hard information about Cassandra. (I don't mean to demean talk between users
or developers, that is indeed the place to go if you want to be part of the
conversation.) I don't consider announcements about upcoming features, like
map reduce over secondary indexes, or pluggable row cache to be noise, even
if they are not things that I happen to be interested in (I'm not, BTW, at
least at the moment). I think that there's a fairly clear line between new
information that users will be interested in - i.e. news - and chatter (even
the good kind).


On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Edward Capriolo <edlinuxguru@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:48 PM, David Boxenhorn <david@citypath.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I am not going to argue the point, because it's not really the point that
> I
> > wanted to make. Maybe I'm an atypical user.
> >
> > The point I wanted to make is that there should be someplace for users to
> > go
> > to find out what's going on with Cassandra, with out all the noise of the
> > user and dev lists, or JIRA. Upcoming features are important, because
> users
> > make decisions based on them. We want to know what's in the pipeline. I'd
> > argue that major architecture changes are important too - like the
> > implementation of supercolumns or compaction - because Cassandra users
> have
> > to know about these things sometimes, and make decisions because of
> them...
> > but I won't argue for 100% of what I want if it will prevent me from
> > getting
> > 90%!
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jbellis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > You missed the point completely, then.
> > >
> > > We recommend not using Supercolumns if you don't know what you're
> > > doing, because almost everyone who does is doing it for the wrong
> > > reasons.
> > >
> > > If you are using Supercolumns for the right reasons (or even the wrong
> > > ones) you don't need to worry because the API is NOT going to change.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 11:28 AM, David Boxenhorn <david@citypath.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Not true. I am a user. I consider this to be effectively the same as
> > > > deprecating supercolumns (with support for the old API for backward
> > > > compatibility). The fact that it is in the presentation that I linked
> > to
> > > -
> > > > from a DataStax employee! - with essentially the same message (i.e.
> > don't
> > > > use them if you're just starting), is more evidence that users should
> > > care
> > > > about it.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jbellis@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> That's exactly the kind of thing that *shouldn't* be on an announce
> > > >> list (and stay on the dev list), precisely because it deals with
> > > >> internals that users don't care about.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 11:18 AM, David Boxenhorn <
> david@citypath.com
> > >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > I would like to see this list also used for announcing upcoming
> > > features.
> > > >> At
> > > >> > some point a decision is made that some future version will
> include
> > > some
> > > >> > important feature. I don't want that information to be buried
in a
> > > JIRA
> > > >> > ticket or a user/dev list discussion.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > For example, I was surprised to learn, by accident, from
> > > >> > http://www.slideshare.net/mattdennis/cassandra-antipatterns ,
> that
> > > >> > supercolumns will be replaced, internally, by composite columns.
> > This
> > > is
> > > >> > something that we've discussed in the past, and that I have
> > advocated
> > > >> > myself, but until now I have seen no indication that it would
be
> > done,
> > > or
> > > >> > that it was even viewed favorably by a consensus of decision
> makers.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Nick Bailey <nick@datastax.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> DataStax has had requests for something like this. It seems
like
> > > >> >> something that would be generally useful for the community
> though.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Regarding twitter, I'm not sure a twitter account should
be
> > required
> > > >> >> to get that information. I think you can follow a twitter
account
> > as
> > > >> >> an rss feed though, so that might be a solution. That and
the
> >  google
> > > >> >> alert or email filter solutions just seem to be introducing
more
> > > >> >> difficulty for anyone trying to get that information. Perhaps
the
> > > >> >> demand for this isn't as high as I am imagining though.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> My opinion on the list if we decide to go with that is that
only
> > > >> >> committers would be able to post to it and yes it would go
to the
> > > >> >> users list as well.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Sylvain Lebresne <
> > > >> sylvain@datastax.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> > I have mixed feeling about that.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On the one side, I agree with Gary that it doesn't add
any real
> > > value.
> > > >> >> > There is twitter,
> > > >> >> > and we use consistent tagged subjects for release email,
so
> it's
> > > easy
> > > >> >> > to subscribe
> > > >> >> > to the user list and set up a filter.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > That being said, I could understand that some people
may find
> it
> > > >> >> > cleaner to have a
> > > >> >> > separate announce list and it is not something unheard
of, so
> I'm
> > > ok
> > > >> >> > with that if enough
> > > >> >> > people thinks it's a good idea. But I think there is
at least 2
> > > >> >> > questions that come along:
> > > >> >> >  - should it be moderated ?
> > > >> >> >  - should announces still be sent to the user list ?
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > --
> > > >> >> > Sylvain
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Gary Dusbabek <
> > > gdusbabek@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> Following @cassandra on twitter or a google alert
would be
> > simple
> > > >> enough
> > > >> >> I
> > > >> >> >> think.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> Gary.
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 14:26, Nick Bailey <nick@datastax.com
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >>> What do we think about having a separate mailing
list for
> just
> > > >> >> >>> cassandra related announcements. The main purpose
being
> > > announcing
> > > >> new
> > > >> >> >>> releases once they pass a vote and are put up
on the website.
> I
> > > >> think
> > > >> >> >>> there is a desire for a way to be informed when
new releases
> > are
> > > >> >> >>> available without sifting through the dev or
users mailing
> > lists.
> > > >> >> >>>
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Jonathan Ellis
> > > >> Project Chair, Apache Cassandra
> > > >> co-founder of DataStax, the source for professional Cassandra
> support
> > > >> http://www.datastax.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Ellis
> > > Project Chair, Apache Cassandra
> > > co-founder of DataStax, the source for professional Cassandra support
> > > http://www.datastax.com
> > >
> >
>
> David,
>
> I do understand where you are coming from. With open source software the
> line between user and developer is very grey. Also open source software
> tends to get pulled by people in many directions, by people with specific
> needs. For example, one committer may be hard at work working on map reduce
> over secondary indexes and may only be tangentially aware of another
> feature
> like pluggable row cache.  This is true in any large project. Only someone
> who can dedicate substantial time to an open source project can really have
> their finger on it's pulse.
>
> I noticed you mentioned "with out all the noise". Well noise is in the eye
> of the beholder. Too much information for you on secondary indexes and
> hadoop might be non enough info for me. Not to say that the information
> dissemination system could not be better but...
>
> I would say that Jonathon's "State of Cassandra Talk"
>
> http://www.datastax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Keynote_CassandraSF2011.pdfis
> a solid look at where Cassandra is going in the near-mid term. I
>
> Edward
>

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