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From Avinash Lakshman <avinash.laksh...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: working together
Date Wed, 08 Apr 2009 04:57:20 GMT
The fact of the matter is it is very hard to defend every decision by going
down memory lane. That's all. I apologize if it came across as condescending
but that definitely was NOT the intent.
Avinash

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Avinash Lakshman <avinash.lakshman@gmail.com
> wrote:

> That is NOT what I meant. I thought I made that very clear. I said "It is
> very hard to recall all experiences and that there is a reason for
> everything". That is all. I am very careful about what I state and I always
> put myself in the shoes of the reader.
> Avinash
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Matthieu Riou <matthieu.riou@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Avinash Lakshman <
>> avinash.lakshman@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > <snipped>
>> > (2) This is something that I have said many times over. Certain things
>> are
>> > the way they are for a reason. For example when I say ConcurrentHashMap
>> is
>> > a
>> > memory hog I say it because we have seen this in practice. How does it
>> > manifest itself? I obviously do not recall since all this was over a
>> year
>> > ago. No one can claim to have run tests the way we have in the last year
>> > and
>> > a half. One cannot just run some simple test and say well I do not see
>> the
>> > problem. I am not dumb. Anyone having gone through the exercise of
>> having
>> > built a system like this in an organization will realize that the tests
>> are
>> > very intermingled with the organization's infrastructure. I have no time
>> to
>> > rip that all apart and put together a test suite at this point. This is
>> > just
>> > an example. There are many such instances - after all - we are the ones
>> who
>> > have the operational experience with this and I do not think anyone can
>> > claim to understand the behavior this system in production workloads
>> better
>> > than we do.
>> >
>>
>> Look, what you're saying here is basically "we know better and you're
>> stupid, so don't touch our code and don't ask questions, we can't provide
>> answers anyway". I'm hoping that's not the way you meant it (emails do
>> that)
>> but that's the essence of what came across. You just can't run an open
>> source project by saying this on its development list.
>>
>> Matthieu
>>
>>
>> >
>> > My understanding was that new committers come in and start with some
>> > feature
>> > implement that and then slowly start looking into what more they could
>> do
>> > going forward. It is NOT come in and refactor the hell out of the system
>> > because you like something to be in a specific way. I do not beleive
>> this
>> > will fly in any community. It is something like we now going through the
>> > entire code base and changing all the stuff just because I like it in a
>> > specific way. This seems ludicrous. We may have no experience in open
>> > source
>> > but we understand etiquette very well. This just doesn't seem the way
>> > things
>> > work in other Apache projects which are successful. We work very closely
>> > with two committers from the Hadoop project who were flabbergasted with
>> the
>> > refactor changes that were going in. That is my gripe with the whole
>> thing.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Avinash
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Jonathan Ellis <jbellis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Torsten Curdt <tcurdt@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > > > So the problems I am seeing are:
>> > > >
>> > > > 1. We elected a committer without real community consensus. The
>> > > > barrier of entry was unnatural low on this one. On the other hand
we
>> > > > need non-FB committers for the graduation. The more the better. (No
>> > > > reason for low entry barrier though!)
>> > >
>> > > It's unfortunate that Avinash and Prashant weren't part of the
>> > > process.  Still, when I talked to Avinash on March 1, he told me [and
>> > > this is a direct quote] "If I had known you earlier I would have added
>> > > you as a committer."  So when I asked one of the mentors how to become
>> > > a committer and it worked out from there it did not occur to me that
>> > > anything was wrong.
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > 2. A missing definition of development process:
>> > > >  - What is considered a valid code review?
>> > > >  - How much are changes discussed up-front?
>> > >
>> > > I think we have a handle on this now.  All changes are put on Jira for
>> > > review and are not committed until there is at least one +1 from a
>> > > reviewer.  (I personally prefer post-commit review because manually
>> > > attaching and applying patches is tedious but we don't have enough
>> > > people following the commit log for that to work right now.)
>> > >
>> > > >  - What is the roadmap? ...for whom? (weighted as a community)
>> > >
>> > > That's worth a separate thread. Such as this one. :)
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/cassandra-dev@incubator.apache.org/msg00160.html
>> > >
>> > > > 3. Is trunk considered "stable"? Or aren't we missing a stable
>> branch
>> > > > for the required stability? Once we have the separation between
>> stable
>> > > > and trunk: Will patches really find it's way from trunk into stable?
>> > > > Is Facebook OK with that approach. Will everyone cope with the
>> > > > additional work of merging? Would it be useful ...or overkill to use
>> > > > merge tracking?
>> > >
>> > > I'm happy to assist with merging code to or from stable branches in
>> > > this scenario.
>> > >
>> > > > This is a tough situation but I hope everyone sees this as an
>> > > > opportunity. Please let's discuss this openly in civilize manner.
>> > > > Focusing on how to solve these points rather than looking at the
>> past.
>> > > > Please talk to each other. Can you/we work this out together?
>> > >
>> > > This can still be a win/win for everyone.  I think that historically
>> > > facebook has felt like the community hasn't contributed much of value,
>> > > but we're starting to change that. The build and test process is
>> > > dramatically better than it was before thanks to community
>> > > contributions.  We have a real daemon mode.  (Well, not in the purest
>> > > sense, but it runs in the background nicely w/o nohup or screen. :)
>> > > We've also found and fixed several concurrency bugs, and we're well on
>> > > the way to having remove and range queries implemented.
>> > >
>> > > Our IRC population has more than doubled.  (#cassandra on freenode:
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://www.mibbit.com/?server=irc.freenode.net&channel=%23cassandra&nick=mibbit
>> > > for a web client)  We have a chance to make this more than a niche
>> > > project.
>> > >
>> > > -Jonathan
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

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