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From Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org>
Subject Re: State of command-line tools
Date Wed, 19 Sep 2012 15:38:10 GMT
Actually, I'm starting a new thread, lets not hijack this one on this topic.


On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org> wrote:

> Regarding Mailing List communication
>
> I've just used an IRC bot for logging purposes where the transcripts are
> either posted to the ML or just saved online.   Would an option like that
> work?
>
> -Michal
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>
>> eh MikeR couple of feedback points:
>>
>> 1. MANY others have been involved..probably better to just leave it at
>> that or ppl might feel bummed. probably every single adobe committer.
>> 2. use the mailing list to communicate or it did not happen (as they
>> say around these apache parts)
>> 3. pls use apache git to collaborate in the open, private forks that
>> aggregate everything have failed many times in the past (cordova
>> namesake project comes to mind)
>>
>> don't be discouraged by fragmented and distributed development. its
>> what we do best. ;)
>>
>> and finally, thank you getting this together into the semblance of
>> sanity in a single email
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Mike Reinstein
>> <reinstein.mike@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Still, I would also appreciate a formal update
>> >
>> > I'm not sure how to make this formal, but let me outline what I've
>> learned
>> > so far. I'm very new to the cordova dev community so if I muck up part
>> of
>> > this, someone chime and correct me. :)
>> >
>> > This may get kind of long but I think it will give a high level
>> overview of
>> > the state of things, who's involved, what we're working on, etc. One
>> thing
>> > to note: as it's been pointed out there are a lot of people working on
>> > this, and it's become a bit fragmented. As a result there's a metric
>> ton of
>> > links that I could point you at but I wont because you'd tear your hair
>> out
>> > trying to follow them all, so I'll give you a straight up history. If
>> you
>> > have more questions follow up and I'll point you at the right places.
>> >
>> > Andrew Lunny seems to have started most of this work. He's developed a
>> > plugin specification, a 1st attempt at defining a package format that
>> > plugins will adhere to. It's essentially a directory organized in a
>> certain
>> > way, containing a plugin.xml with the bulk of the setup directives.
>> Andrew
>> > also created a tool called *pluginstall* that supports this plugin
>> format
>> > and supports adding plugins on android and ios.  He created this because
>> > he's primarily responsible for phonegap build at his day job, the web
>> > service that allow people to upload an archive and have it build
>> remotely,
>> > without requiring the hassle of local dev environments being set up.
>> >
>> > So pluginstall has been pulled into cordova command line tools as a low
>> > level dependency. When the cordova cli does plugin related stuff, it
>> calls
>> > this tool in the background to handle adding plugins.
>> >
>> > Here is where it gets complicated. :) Andrew built pluginstall, and it
>> > primarily exists to support phonegap build. He has no problem with it
>> being
>> > used for cordova as part of our toolsuite, but because his primary
>> concern
>> > is building/maintaining the pg build site that takes priority. Currently
>> > he's also just getting back from vacay, and won't be working on
>> pluginsall
>> > or it's spec for a few weeks because he's also got an upcoming release
>> of
>> > phonegap build that takes priority. There are a number of things that
>> need
>> > to be changed in order to build out a more robust cli toolset on our
>> side.
>> > Just off the top of my head:
>> > * support for platforms besides ios and android
>> > * support for OSes besides Mac OS X (the cli tools only run on mac for
>> now)
>> > * better/more tests
>> > * someday we will probably want to have a repo so people can
>> > programmatically install plugins similar to npm
>> >
>> > Those are just the high level tasks, as you can imagine the devil is in
>> the
>> > details and there are 7.8 trillion sub tasks.
>> >
>> > What I've found to be most challenging though, is the dev environment
>> and
>> > fragmentation. There are 4-6 people involved in the development of this
>> > tool, with people working in different directions though with a shared
>> > goal. My first several weeks on this team have largely been playing
>> > detective, interrogating everyone that seems to have some involvement in
>> > the plugin feature, looking at docs, and discovering what repos have
>> what
>> > changes, and the *WHY *behind them. I have like 16 repos on github that
>> I'm
>> > trying to keep track of that are very similar but differnet. I'm
>> willling
>> > to bet even as I'm writing this other people have chimed in on the
>> plugin
>> > topic in this dev thread. :)
>> >
>> > So that being said, I'm not picking on anyone, we're making good
>> progress.
>> > But it's definitely frustrating how fragmented and unorganized the work
>> for
>> > it is. What I'm trying to consolidate the code everyone is working on
>> into
>> > one repo. I'm tracking the work of @imhotep, @wildabeast, @alunny,
>> @filmaj
>> > on github, and trying to pull their work into my codebase (while taming
>> the
>> > frankenstein aspects of bolting together contributions from 5 people.)
>>  My
>> > hope is that in the next week or so, my code will provide everyone's
>> > contributions in one place, while at the same time trying to get more
>> > coordination on how we work and what we're doing so we're not trampling
>> > each other. That's  my goal anyway. : /
>> >
>> > Anyway, I hope this has been helpful. The biggest challenge is getting
>> more
>> > organized and not repeating ourselves. I've found from other projects
>> that
>> > communication tends to be the biggest stumbling block, not the work
>> itself.
>> > And that experience was with day job, paid full time developers. In this
>> > open source situation it's like 3X more disconnected. :)
>> >
>> > -Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>> >
>> >> you can also give `npm install -g cordova` a go to see where its at
>> >>
>> >> definitely alpha but super promising. =)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> > Take a look at the "plugin tooling/specification" thread, and Mike
>> >> > Reinstein has been digging around here lately.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think also they may have had an irc chat recently on this topic,
>> >> perhaps
>> >> > they can report if there were any interesting conclusions.
>> >> >
>> >> > Still, I would also appreciate a formal update to see how we can all
>> help
>> >> > out.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Michal
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Braden Shepherdson <
>> >> braden@chromium.org>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I'm wondering about the state of the command-line tools for Cordova.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Are the current plans and progress so far documented anywhere?
If
>> not,
>> >> >> could someone give an update here?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm interested in helping out with that effort, but it's hard to
>> know
>> >> where
>> >> >> to start. I understand it had fragmented into several different
>> >> >> repositories but that someone was working on consolidating it again.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Any information would be welcome.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Braden
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>

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