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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@opendirective.com>
Subject Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of Cordova
Date Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:58:25 GMT
On Jul 26, 2012 9:29 PM, "Filip Maj" <fil@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> Ross, I would love to become more familiar with the specific reasoning,
> when you have time to share

I figured I wouldn't get away with that one ;-)

I'll collect some resources in the next few days (unless Jukka can recall a
useful existing document describing the history of Jakarta)

Ross

>
> On 7/26/12 11:49 AM, "Brian LeRoux" <b@brian.io> wrote:
>
> >I think Ripple as a stand alone is probably the best place for it
> >conceptually. From an infrastructure standpoint there is so much
> >overlap between the projects its seems inefficient so its really the
> >only place I'm having difficulty reconciling. If Ripple does go TLP
> >then it has to have all the git repo, issue tracker, wiki, website,
> >and mailing list ceremony that we kinda already enjoy in this space.
> >That said, having all that stuff decoupled is also not a bad thing at
> >all.
> >
> >Ultimately, I'm very happy to see the code joining us at Apache and
> >whatever choice the RIM creators/committers/contributors decide we
> >support!
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Ross Gardler
> ><rgardler@opendirective.com> wrote:
> >> Whilst Cordova can see idle in any light or likes, from the ASF
> >>perspective
> >> it is just a project. The ASF is the umbrella organisation and it
> >>resists
> >> the idea of projects becoming umbrellas. There are good, community
> >>focused
> >> reasons for this. Reasons that come from practical experiences within
> >>this
> >> foundation. Unfortunately I'm on a mobile so providing references right
> >>now
> >> is hard.
> >>
> >> I'm happy to explore this further if people want to understand it.
> >>
> >> That being said, I am not suggesting I'd object to either approach
being
> >> discussed here. I only object to a justification that hinges on Cordova
> >> being an umbrella project.
> >>
> >> From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
> >> On Jul 26, 2012 7:19 PM, <gtanner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I sometimes see cordova not as a specific platform (or set of APIs)
> >>>but as
> >>> a leader in the open mobile web.  If we are able to step away from the
> >>>idea
> >>> of cordova being a singular platform but the bleeding edge of mobile
> >>>web r
> >>> & d it makes sense to have ripple be a part of that.
> >>>
> >>> I might be getting caught up in religious zealotry but that is kind of
> >>>the
> >>> vision I see for cordova and seeing ripple fit really well into that
> >>>vision.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com>
> >>> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 11:13:57
> >>> To:
> >>>callback-dev@incubator.apache.org<callback-dev@incubator.apache.org>
> >>> Reply-To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
> >>>Cordova
> >>>
> >>> You can definitely count on some of us Cordova committers (Michael
> >>>Brooks,
> >>> myself) to continue contributing to Ripple. Hopefully we can encourage
> >>> others in our committer community as well as abroad to do the same.
> >>>
> >>> On 7/26/12 10:51 AM, "Ken Wallis" <kwallis@rim.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >I would prefer that we have a pretty good idea of what the final
> >>>resting
> >>> >place should be and work towards that right away.  While it probably
> >>>is
> >>> >fairly "easy" on the Apache side to promote a sub-project into a
> >>> >top-level one, it could cause headaches for any downstream consumers
> >>>of
> >>> >the project if it would involve repository moves, renaming,
> >>> >what-have-you. If the move could be fairly transparent then I don't
> >>>have
> >>> >an issue on this front. ;)
> >>> >
> >>> >In general though, I agree that the biggest question will be one of
> >>> >community.  From where things stand, Ripple will not be solely tied
to
> >>> >Cordova, it will have other uses.  With the importance that the
> >>>Cordova
> >>> >community is putting on Ripple, I have the feeling that there will be
> >>> >enough interconnections to help foster a strong enough community
> >>>around
> >>> >Ripple as a top-level project. (I hope) there will be shared
> >>>committers,
> >>> >Cordova consumption of the Ripple project, continued joint ventures
in
> >>> >terms of community out-reach and involvement, Cordova community
shared
> >>> >learnings on becoming an Apache project and navigating the process,
> >>>etc.
> >>> >I see the community aspect as a risk if Ripple were to be a top-level
> >>> >project, but with the Cordova community support, I think it will be
a
> >>> >small one.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >--
> >>> >
> >>> >Ken Wallis
> >>> >
> >>> >Product Manager ­ BlackBerry WebWorks
> >>> >
> >>> >Research In Motion
> >>> >
> >>> >(905) 629-4746 x14369
> >>> >
> >>> >________________________________________
> >>> >From: Filip Maj [fil@adobe.com]
> >>> >Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:07 PM
> >>> >To: callback-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> >Subject: Re: [ATTN MENTOR] Re: DISCUSS: Ripple as a sub-project of
> >>>Cordova
> >>> >
> >>> >In my mind the core issue is about community, not about development.
> >>> >
> >>> >With that in mind, and taking Ross' point below, I think it makes
> >>>sense to
> >>> >have it as a stand-alone project.
> >>> >
> >>> >However, with respect to Jukka's question about development _of_
> >>>Ripple,
> >>> >there is certainly an overlap and integration between Cordova and
> >>>Ripple
> >>> >development. Gord and I have talked about how, when a new platform
> >>>makes
> >>> >its way into Cordova and has the start of a full implementation, the
> >>>first
> >>> >step would be to take the platform's JavaScript implementation and
> >>>run the
> >>> >Cordova test suite inside of Ripple (before even going to the
> >>>platform's
> >>> >emulator / device). This is already in a way exhibited by Tizen
> >>> >essentially using Ripple as their simulator in the first place.
> >>> >
> >>> >So in conclusion: both are viable paths IMO, and we do not get to a
> >>> >conclusion haha.
> >>> >
> >>> >What about the idea of introducing Ripple into Cordova for the start,
> >>>and
> >>> >then later splitting it out? Seems like then we could kick-start
> >>>Ripple's
> >>> >exposure and community/committer interaction by leveraging what
> >>>Cordova
> >>> >already has. If that sounds acceptable, then my question would be, at
> >>>what
> >>> >point does it make sense to put Ripple into its own top-level
project?
> >>> >
> >>> >On 7/26/12 7:53 AM, "Ross Gardler" <rgardler@opendirective.com>
wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >>+1 to everything Jukka said below.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Another way of looking at it is "will the Ripple community be a
> >>> >>sub-set of the Cordova community", if yes then sub-project is
> >>>probably
> >>> >>best. If not, i.e. there will be members of the Ripple community
who
> >>> >>are not also members of the Cordova community, then it probably
ought
> >>> >>to be a separate project to maximise its visibility as a separate
> >>> >>community.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Ross
> >>> >>
> >>> >>On 26 July 2012 15:25, Jukka Zitting <jukka.zitting@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>> >>> Hi,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:06 PM,  <gtanner@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>> >>>> There is a lot of overlap between the cordova and ripple
> >>>communities
> >>> >>>>and I was originally
> >>> >>>> hoping to foster their community into ours ;)
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I guess the main question here is whether Cordova committers
will
> >>>be
> >>> >>> working on / looking at Ripple code and vice versa on a regular
> >>>basis.
> >>> >>> If that's the case (i.e. there's significant overlap in actual
> >>> >>> development activity), then having the codebases in one project
is
> >>>a
> >>> >>> good approach. weinre is a good example of such a case.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> If not (for example if separate mailing lists are needed, etc.),
> >>>then
> >>> >>> it's best for both codebases to have their own projects even
if
> >>> >>> there's overlap on the level of individual committers.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The decision on this doesn't need to be final, as projects
can
> >>>always
> >>> >>> split or merge projects later on, but starting with at least
a
good
> >>> >>> approximation of the ultimate or ideal community/project structure
> >>> >>> will of course make things much easier.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> BR,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Jukka Zitting
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>--
> >>> >>Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> >>> >>Programme Leader (Open Development)
> >>> >>OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
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