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From Brian LeRoux...@brian.io>
Subject Re: CommandLine Tooling Design
Date Wed, 11 Apr 2012 18:50:46 GMT
after my cordova proj experience I think having tools for each
project, using a common nomenclature, is the way to go

the good news: most of those tools are in some form already in place
for each proj

wrapping those tools into a master cli project should be easy, and
won't force the hands of devs

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Andrew Lunny <alunny@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 April 2012 16:27, Patrick Mueller <pmuellr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 18:21, Andrew Lunny <alunny@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the best way for us to approach command-line tooling is to be
>>> laser-focused on individual problems.
>>
>>
>> Partially agree.  That's the "bottom up" approach.  I'm curious what our
>> "top down" story looks like.  The easiest way for me to imagine what that
>> looks like, is to start sketching out the highest-level "commands" that
>> you'll be using to do stuff.
>>
>> Bottom up is great for solving the "how do I do surgery on .xcodeproject
>> files, or those android manifests - THEY ARE STINKY!"  Tough sticky
>> problems to work on, we will likely need them once we figure out what the
>> high level story is.
>>
>> I think we need to do both.
>>
>> At least, I think we do, because, again, I have no idea what our "top
>> down" story looks like.  None at all.  So I made one up - the commands.  Is
>> there another "top down" story out there I missed?
>>
>
> Well from a high-level perspective, I think your commands are too
> low-level. :)
>
> The issue is that there isn't such a thing as a Cordova app. There are two
> separate things:
>
> (a) a native (iOS, Android, etc) app, using the Cordova framework to serve
> content; and
> (b) some higher abstraction (like a PhoneGap Build app) that transforms
> down in multiple apps of type (a)
>
> From anecdotal experience, I think most developers are building type-a
> apps, then running into difficulties when they try to create a second
> type-a app that uses the same www content (porting from iOS to Android or
> whatever).
>
> Some things CLI tools can do:
>
> 1. improve the experience of building a type-a app (like generating an
> xcodeproj that doesn't explode, or adding new capabilities through plugins)
> 2. improve the experience of building multiple type-a apps (generate an
> Android project from your iOS project, keep them in sync)
> 3. create/enhance a type-b experience (which your proposed commands do) and
> abstract away the type-a projects
>
> I think we do need CLI tools to solve the #1 and #2 problem sets*.
>
> I don't think we're at a place where we can reliably abstract away those
> type-a projects, so that every interaction a user has is through a type-b
> project and the associated CLI commands. In some of the problems you
> mention above, the type-b concept gets even stronger, affecting the actual
> JS runtime of the created app. The issue is whether we *want* to create and
> encourage this kind of holistic developer experience.
>
> PhoneGap/Cordova has historically stayed away from this stuff - we haven't
> determined or enforced how developers build apps using the framework. I
> think this is a feature, not a bug; web developers can easily come in and
> build to a browser, rather than to our particular conventions.
>
> Personally, I would like to see this kind of
> type-b/holistic/I've-been-typing-too-long developed outside of cordova (as
> Brian's old Cordova project was) - if it becomes mature and viable enough,
> we can bring it into the project as a whole, and start determining changes
> to the framework to accomodate it.
>
> Hope some of that makes sense,
> Andrew
>
> * sorry, this is getting increasingly convoluted

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