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From Jukka Zitting <>
Subject Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Date Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:37:36 GMT

+1 Great idea, thanks for pushing this!

At first, when it became clear how disruptive the switch to svn would be, I
considered it best overall to postpone the migration to Apache infra, but
it's obviously better if there's a chance for us to actively help move
things forward. And as you say the experience of the Callback team would
likely help also the ASF in general.

I'm also able and willing to help with any required backend stuff.


Jukka Zitting

On Nov 26, 2011 11:13 PM, "Ross Gardler" <> wrote:
> As some here may know, the ASF has been preparing to roll Git out to all
> projects that want it. This work had been non-trivial, the infrastructure
> team have been working on the technical issues since committing to it at
> ApacheCon in 2010 (and before that they had to figure out what the real
> issues were).
> This work has led to the trial in CouchDB. This trial is designed to a)
> test the technical solutions in a working project and b) educate people
> like me who have no experience of working with Git in a community project.
> Since becoming aware of this projects desire to "wait it out" before
> to the ASF I have been seeing if there is any way of making this happen
> sooner rather than later.
> For example, on the infrastructure list I said:
> "They (PhoneGap/Callback) have an existing GitHub based community and are
> well respected project in their own right. The nature of their project
> means that SVN is sub-optimal for reasons we don't hear in the typical
Git Vs
> SVN arguments (in short they have lots of platform specific forks of their
> core code but seek to ensure a strong community around the core and each
> those forks).
> From my limited engagement with them so far I find them respectful of the
> ASFs position and willing to work with us on addressing our concerns. I'm
> not yet sure of how "Apache like" their existing community is, but I do
> find myself saying one thing as a mentor ("you are not allowed to do
> whilst feeling another ("you should be allowed to help educate us here").
> think we are missing an opportunity.
> With strong mentorship I believe this particular project could help us
> accelerate
> the evaluation of Git within ASF communities. I am a mentor and I'm
> to commit to safeguarding the experiment."
> As you can see, I have some significant concerns. Git, as a tool, can be
> useful to a community managed project. However, it was designed for an
> entirely different management model (the Benevolent Dictator). I'm not
> currently sure of where on this spectrum PhoneGap/Callbac sits. However,
> you asked to come to the ASF, your champion is well respected by more than
> just myself and you have some great mentors (not including me of course).
> assume we are on fairly safe ground here.
> The response to my enquiries has been very positive (it's amazing how
> ill-informed bloggers can be). As a result (and because another mentor has
> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions
> before I make that request.
> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over
> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in
> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe
> how you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions,
> IP review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work
> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that
> there will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage
> with. If I am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process
> I'm willing to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the
> board. I'm reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other
> mentors here then we can convince the infrastructure team.
> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current
> governance and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way.
> On the CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member
> which defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came
> Git when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully,  be a useful
> starting point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already). See
> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee
> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully
> you will be too.
> Are mentors OK with this?
> Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any
> questions or observations?
> Ross

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