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From SamuelKevin <>
Subject Fwd: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Date Fri, 01 Jul 2011 13:38:06 GMT
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Grobmeier <>
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:37:23 +0200
Subject: Re: Bluesky calls for a new mentor!
Cc: bluesky-dev <>

> I believe projects from  school could also rock in Apache as well. You can
> look down up on us but you can't deny others.

This is not the point.

The point is, if you have contributors who have no apache id, they

a) need to sign an ICLA
b) need to create an Jira issue and attach an svn diff there, ticking
the "allowed to use for the ASF" box
c) need to ask development questions on the mailinglist, not by ICQ,
MSN or whatever

You can actually work with students, no problem. But it should happen
visible. Even when you are in the same room, it should be visible to
all other parties around the world. Otherwise you will never get an
development community.

>     I had a propose that community give us the last chance for 1-2month and
> certain member could become our mentor to lead us finish  releasing the
> newest version.   During this time slot. What you would see includes:

I am not sure if the term "mentor" is used well here. A "mentor" is
not here to help you in development questions. A mentors role is to
oversee how the project progresses, guide people to work after the
apache way. After 3 years you should already know about the apache way
and mentor should be obsolet (from a teaching role only). A mentor is
for sure NO project lead. He can point you to the according docs of
"how to release code", for example.

>   1. gradually increasing discussion in bluesky-dev mailing list.
>   Meaningless discussion would not count.

ALL discussion must happen on list, from now on. If it didn't happen
on list, it didn't happen, as a wise man once said.

>   2. committing of source code after they were cleaned up.
>   Inactive committers would be revoked and new committers would apply to join
>   in.

Now or never. It is "commit then review"
Potential new committers must show their interest on the mailing list
- otherwise your mentors cannot decide if they should support a
invitation or not. As you know, new committers must be voted in. The
discussion should also happen before, on list.

>   3. preparing for what release needs and make the release successful. Thus
>   the new developers and committers could completely experienced the release
>   process and know about "How" things are done in Apache community better.

You should start working on the apache way even before the release. If
it didn't work well before, it will not work well while releasing.

>     If community accept my suggestion, individually, i want the BlueSky
> project under strict surveillance by community members. If we can't fulfill
> what we just promised, then just kick us out of here and i would have noting
> to say.

I (personally) have no problems with waiting just another 2 or 3
months. I cannot imagine anyone would like to step up as a mentor at
the moment. My suggestion: try to work out the apache way now. Use
jira and the mailinglist. Students contribute patches through jira.
Committers apply them. And so on. If that all happens, your Jira is
full of contributions and your mailinglist full of discussions. If
that is the case, come back to this list and ask for a mentor again -
probably somebody is willling to step up again.
If you have more questions on "how apache works", I am pretty sure
you'll get an answer on this list.


>     Well, suppose we live through that, besides working in Apache way, we
> would continually working on to evolve BlueSky to make it much more easier
> to use in  e-learning area and used in a larger scope(now bluesky has
> been deployed in China and is about to be applied in India ), so that more
> students in undeveloped district could share the same high quality education
> as the developed area.
>      Sincerely, i would invite you Ralph to be our mentor in this 1-2 month
> if you were not busy enough and willing to guide us. Don't feel sorry if you
> want to refuse me.TOT
> regards,
> Kevin
> 2011/6/30 Ralph Goers <>
>> Sorry, but the explanation below makes things sound even worse. Apache
>> projects are not here to give students a place to do school work. What you
>> have described is not a community.  If the project cannot build a community
>> of people who are interested in the project for more than a school term then
>> it doesn't belong here.
>> Ralph
>> On Jun 29, 2011, at 8:12 PM, SamuelKevin wrote:
>> > Hi, Noel:
>> >
>> > 2011/6/30 Noel J. Bergman <>
>> >
>> >> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>> >>> Chen Liu wrote:
>> >>>> We propose to move future development of BlueSky to the Apache
>> Software
>> >>>> Foundation in order to build a broader user and developer community.
>> >>
>> >>> You are supposed to be doing your development work in the ASF
>> subversion
>> >>> repository, using ASF mailing lists, as peers.
>> >>
>> >> Chen, as Joe points out, these are what BlueSky should have been doing
>> for
>> >> the past three (3) years, and yet we still here a proposal for the
>> future.
>> >>
>> >>> Looking at the (limited) commit history, there is a total imbalance
>> >> between
>> >>> the number of people associated with the development work (20+) and
>> >>> number of people with Apache accounts here (2).
>> >>
>> >> I guess i can explain that. Most of the developers of BlueSky project
>> are
>> > students. As you all know, students come  when they join in school and go
>> > after they graduate. So the active developers are around 10. Like we used
>> to
>> > have 5 committers, but now we only have 2 committers in active.
>> >
>> >> Again, as Joe points out, ALL of BlueSky development should been done
>> via
>> >> the ASF infrastructure, not periodically synchronized.  We are a
>> >> development
>> >> community, not a remote archive.
>> >>
>> >>> What we really need you to discuss are *plans*, how you will implement
>> >> them,
>> >>> who will implement them, and how you will collaborate in the codebase
>> as
>> >> peers.
>> >>
>> >> Joe, again, has this on the money.  The BlueSky project must immediately
>> >> make significant strides to rectify these issues.  Now, not later.
>> >>
>> >> We should see:
>> >>
>> >> 1) All current code in the ASF repository.
>> >> 2) All development via ASF accounts (get the rest of the people signed
>> >> up).
>> >> 3) Ddevelopment discussion on the mailing list.
>> >> 4) All licensing issues cleaned up.
>> >>
>> >> According to what you've listed, i would forward your suggestion to
>> bluesky
>> > dev list and wish we could make a quick response after
>> > discussion. Appreciate your help.
>> > regards,
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> >>       --- Noel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev Team    XJTU
>> > Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> --
> Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev Team    XJTU
> Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech


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Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev Team    XJTU
Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech

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