From bluesky-dev-return-485-apmail-incubator-bluesky-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Thu Apr 09 20:45:21 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-bluesky-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: (qmail 96666 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2009 20:45:21 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 9 Apr 2009 20:45:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 22789 invoked by uid 500); 9 Apr 2009 20:45:21 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-bluesky-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 22749 invoked by uid 500); 9 Apr 2009 20:45:21 -0000 Mailing-List: contact bluesky-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: bluesky-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list bluesky-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 22739 invoked by uid 99); 9 Apr 2009 20:45:20 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:45:20 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of wgstoddard@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.108 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.221.108] (HELO mail-qy0-f108.google.com) (209.85.221.108) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:45:11 +0000 Received: by qyk6 with SMTP id 6so1391317qyk.32 for ; Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:44:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z6jCxjPuRaMHplUqzfujkFSwxyDBWXzDDw3czadSw5Q=; b=hxm4jvvoElLlGQpfcZ02jLHvQgJzqBSaADL4g3bZoSr3G2Ov/QwXn5lZLULnJiM4We Q9wWFhxhYjSZBPWnQK7Id5Fr8QGRvmoczZGJPkS6cItwjAL8UGET3pvHsZzK6yd3RMlJ x9WSYH7kz+iRJMjHh5o28OdqHnaOBQIlTNGqg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ePxaJkpKHyCfB91atMVMjVMkrAC57L9G/4dVVLraQl3hOxIur5cJhqMqK55ecevJF2 tF3lZxHVQVwwgVFWP9JgR+rw/pOfqQQjZc3R4u3wQYMw3rj6earBKkP6IijTxnRocCaW 8BGuAhVYDsLWLljnCJ629whPsMjCSi5ITNbns= Received: by 10.224.67.130 with SMTP id r2mr3448336qai.284.1239309889579; Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wgstoddard.nc.rr.com (cpe-024-163-062-128.nc.res.rr.com [24.163.62.128]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm1346001ywn.22.2009.04.09.13.44.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <49DE5E3F.4000903@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:44:47 -0400 From: Bill Stoddard User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bluesky-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Blluesky PMC report References: <6ec21e960904070520w4de377fcy1435bd0b0b1afcdd@mail.gmail.com> <6ec21e960904080555p3f6ffa21qd0f0668253068d2d@mail.gmail.com> <49DCB3DB.8040507@gmail.com> <6ec21e960904081029v7d4496b8t7420dde133b64718@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6ec21e960904081029v7d4496b8t7420dde133b64718@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Samul Kevin wrote: > 2009/4/8 Bill Stoddard > > >> Samul Kevin wrote: >> >> >>> 2009/4/8 Bertrand Delacretaz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Samul Kevin >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/April2009#preview... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It would be good, IMHO, to include some info about the community side >>>> of things...a recent thread [1] seems to indicate that most of the >>>> BlueSky committers are not working on the project anymore. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> And the people who are now contributing to the project are not listed as >>> commiters. It does not matter. Though acting slowly, people are working. >>> I >>> am now more seriously concerned about the progress. I thought the >>> speeding >>> of podling would be fastened , however, it is still like turtle >>> crawling....in 1 and 3/4 month since the beginning of this semester. Yes, >>> things get a little better now. But i don't think it is good enough. We >>> have >>> reasons, as having classes or working on several projects simultaneously, >>> nevertheless, i don't think we can treat them as excuses to fend off not >>> doing THIS PROJECT good. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> A critical milestone will be getting the code grant in place and checking >> the code into svn. When the code is checked into svn, we can look for >> contributors from outside the XJTU students and begin building a sustainable >> community (I think we have some people in India interested in the project). >> We simply have to begin releasing code from the ASF if the project is >> ever to take the next step to sustainability. Samul, I will work with you >> this week to do the next round of code review; >> Here is the software grant that XJTU needs to submit for code developed by >> XJTU: http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt >> Please review and begin preparing it. >> > > ok, i will dig into it as soon as finish my coding work. > > >> Now... I have a very difficult question to ask... >> Bluesky project relies heavily on video technology, most of which is not >> suitable for redistribution by the ASF (due to licensing terms and >> condition). The team has made a great effort over the past year to scrub >> the project clean of incompatibly licensed code, but is it enough? My >> concern is that the project will never be able to resolve the difficulties >> around the licensing of the video technologies... and that maybe the ASF is >> not the best home for Bluesky for this reason. >> > > yes, the critical part of Bluesky system is video and audio tech. Surely we > can't us FFmpeg, but at least we could try to find a suitalbe replacement > which in my opinion, there is chance that this problem could be solved. > > >> My question... can we really succeed in realizing the goals of the bluesky >> project under the license and legal constraints imposed by the ASF? Is it >> really possible? >> >> > > i talked to a friend today. And she analized me as a man who has good > traits except self-confidence. she thought that I always think about the > worst part so that i am used to be hesitating on doing things. Though i am > gradually change this defect these days, no shame to say, i guest it > contributes most in my not finding a girlfriend-_-!. > i assume to complete this project as to hitch a girl who you love but > pretty hard to chase. there are two way beyond, get drunk (countless wine > for triumph)or get fucked (lose like hell). Actually, like many people, i > didn't anticipate the success of this project at first. But gradually, i > found that there is chance we could make it if we sacrifice time to > contribute. The chance might be tiny if you chase the girl while it is > naught if you just bury the love in the bottom of your heart. Even if the > projcet fail at last, i want a decent end after my toiling days and hours. > Where there is a will, there is a way. To my understanding, the future of > podling of Bluesky lies on the will of us -- participators of this project. > If we were all determined, i don't believe we could not success. I throw the > same question to my companions, since we've started it, how could end it? > sucessfully, decently or shamely. > > ^_^ My concern is not with the team... my concern is with the technology, or to be precise, my concern is with the licensing of the technology. The ASF places restrictions on what kind of software licenses we can use. Can we find suitable alternatives to the GPL components Bluesky relies on? I am waiting on the team to tell me. If the answer is no, then we have to face up to reality... there is no shame in admitting defeat if there are forces beyond our control guiding our choices. We can move the project to a different venue (sourceforge maybe?) and distribute Bluesky as GPL code? I don't want to admit defeat just yet... I hope the team can solve the problem... but if solving the problem means reinventing ffmpeg, with a different license, then we really cannot succeed, can we? What other alternatives do we have? Bill