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From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
To: Shane Curcuru <asf@shanecurcuru.org>
CC: "trademarks@apache.org" <trademarks@apache.org>,
        "any23-dev@incubator.apache.org" <any23-dev@incubator.apache.org>,
        Lewis John
 Mcgibbney <lewis.mcgibbney@gmail.com>,
        Michele Mostarda
	<michele.mostarda@gmail.com>,
        Richard Cyganiak <richard@cyganiak.de>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 06:56:51 -0800
Subject: Re: any23.org
Thread-Topic: any23.org
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Thanks Shane, this is *precisely* the way I was hoping you=20
would lean!

Appreciate it, and yep it does make sense. I will take this
decision back to the project and work with them to:

1. get any23.org migrated to ASF infrastructure
2. put up a per project thanks page on http://incubator.apache.org/any23/ a=
nd=20
eventually any23.apache.org that thanks the research and govt' institutions
predating Apache (with logos but with nofollow links) and that doesn't=20
imply any governance in either direction
3. make sure any23.org (once it's on ASF infrastructure) either links to th=
e
per project thanks page from 2; or stands up its own sub-page similarly to=
=20
2.

Thanks, again!

Cheers,
Chris

On Feb 22, 2012, at 7:35 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:

> (Please note the distribution list which mixes private and public lists)
>=20
> Thanks for the discussion and the very interesting question!
>=20
> Where what gets hosted (re: any23.org etc.) is a project and infra=20
> decision.  In this case, I'd certainly hope we can host it at the ASF=20
> (it sounds useful, has the project name, and seems to have support from=20
> the project to do this); if we do, it should follow the normal=20
> apache.org branding guidelines unless there is a specific exception.
>=20
> We should not include prominent links or logos to other organizations on=
=20
> the home pages of our projects; in this case, I'd think that would=20
> include the any23.org home page as well if we host.
>=20
> However we can have per-project thanks pages that provide useful links=20
> to third parties who work in the technical spaces of our individual=20
> projects. (Yes, I know we need better docs on best practices here).
>=20
> Personally, I see this case as a little differently than most=20
> per-project thanks pages: here, we have both (I think) 1) the=20
> organizations who originally supported/helped to found the project=20
> pre-Apache, and 2) some non-profit or governmental bodies, and not=20
> commercial companies.
>=20
> For this combination of 1) and 2), I'd be happy with listing these=20
> organizations on a sub-page (i.e. not home page) of any23.org (or even=20
> any23.apache.org or similar), including logos with nofollow links.=20
> Given that these organizations (as I understand) helped to found the=20
> project, and are non-profits also serving the public good, I'm happy in=20
> general to give them a slightly more obvious recognition than a=20
> commercial company.
>=20
> Note that any such listings need to be factual, and should not in any=20
> way imply approval/endorsement, nor should they imply control or=20
> governance (in either direction).  But from the tone of the discussion=20
> here, I don't think that will be an issue.
>=20
> Make sense?
>=20
> - Shane
>=20
> On 2012-02-17 5:00 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:
>> Hey Greg,
>>=20
>> On Feb 17, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
>>=20
>>> My opinion is that if something is run on Apache hardware, then it
>>> should follow the same branding rules that we use for .apache.org.
>>=20
>> Yeah here was the background on this. The prior-to-Apache Any23 folks
>> were funded by several projects out of the European Union and they had
>> this external service that let folks call their RDF web service for Any2=
3,
>> I think it was hosted (and is hosted) at http://any23.org/
>>=20
>> So anyways Lewis was asking an infrastructure question related to Apache=
 Any23
>> in the Incubator here, that  seems to have turned into a branding questi=
on:
>>=20
>> The infra one:
>> 1. Should we move this external service/site over to ASF hardware
>>=20
>> The branding one (via Richard who manages the external site) and an insp=
ection of the external any23.org site:
>>=20
>> 1. If that site has some logos on it from the research institutions wher=
e Any23 was
>> at before it came to the ASF, can we like include a thanks page associat=
ed with
>> the incoming page and/or the Any23 website that still conforms to projec=
t branding
>> rules but maybe lets us keep the logos (with nofollow tags) on them to s=
ay "thanks
>> research institutions in the European Union for originally funding this =
before coming
>> to the ASF."
>>=20
>> I asked Greg about this on GChat and am bring the conversation on list.
>>=20
>> Checking out:
>>=20
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html
>>=20
>> and
>>=20
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding.html
>>=20
>> led us to:
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html#navigation
>>=20
>> There isn't much guidance there on Project or PMC specific "thanks pages=
".
>>=20
>> I am thinking of either opening up a new trademarks JIRA issue or
>> a new thread on trademarks@ to discuss this because I think that
>> it should be OK to say "thanks" to upstream contributors of software
>> that is donated or granted to the Apache Software Foundation, in a manne=
r
>> such as a thanks page including either text or some logos (with no follo=
w)
>> links to point back to the lineage and say thanks.
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>=20
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>=20
>=20


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++