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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@opendirective.com>
Subject Re: Incubator PMC/Board report for Dec 2012 ([ppmc])
Date Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:57:07 GMT
Sent from my tablet
On Dec 12, 2012 6:25 PM, "Jesus M. Gonzalez-Barahona" <jgb@bitergia.com>
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2012-12-12 at 17:29 +0000, Ross Gardler wrote:
> > Sent from my tablet
> > On Dec 12, 2012 5:21 PM, "Jesus M. Gonzalez-Barahona" <jgb@bitergia.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2012-12-12 at 10:48 -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
> > > > On Dec 10, 2012, at 1:37 AM, Alvaro del Castillo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > We have updated our Allura report:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://bitergia.com/public/previews/allura/2012_12_allura/
> > > > >
> > > > > In Bitergia we are reviewing all the data to be sure are ok.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe we can use some of this report info for the PMC/Board
report.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks. I've updated the URL in the report, but if you'd like to add
> > specifics to the report, please let me know what you'd like to add.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't know if it would make sense to either include some numbers
(such
> > > as number of commits, committers, etc for the period) or charts (those
> > > could be screenshots of the charts in the report, linking to the
report,
> > > or we could build some JPEG figures if that suits better. It all
depends
> > > on the level of detail you consider reasonable.
> >
> > Generally speaking statistics are not important at all. They tell us
> > nothing about the health of a community, whcih is all a board report
should
> > be concerned with. A single prolific contributor, or one seeking
> > tommanipulate the stats, can make the stats look good, but that doesn't
> > mean the community is healthy. That being said some numbers are useful
> > indicators.
> >
> > When reviewing reports I'm interested in when the last release was made,
> > that patch queues are not growing, that new committers are being
brought in
> > etc. Notice all these are about community health (i.e. new users get
early
> > access, contributors are getting attention, the community is
> > creating/maintaining diversity), rather than about technical engagements
> > (number of posts to mailing lists, number of commits etc.). If you can
> > include infomlike this it would be good.
> >
> > All that being said I think it would be good to include any stats you
think
> > might be useful and ask the IPMC and board for feedback on their
utility in
> > board reports.
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Ross.
>
> This is quite interesting. When producing a report, it is much better if
> we know what we're looking for. If you're interested, we could talk
> (maybe off-list, to avoid noise to people not interested) about what
> could be interesting for this purpose, and we can try to figure out how
> to produce useful data. If we can script it, the data could later be
> produced automatically. Let me know if you have time / interest to give
> this idea a try.

Since the data is coming from Allura I'd say keep it here. Some of the data
needed may not be exposed yet.

> But a close-to-zero month
> for those parameters says a lot about how inactive the community is, if
> you're interested in that.

Well that's just it, we (the ASF) are not interested in that kind of
statistic. Projects go quiet for many different reasons, including heakthy
ones (e.g. feature complete and innmaintenance mode). All we care about is
whether the community is healthy (e.g. security reports are addressed even
in maintenance stage projects). The ASF board (or at least this board
member) is not interested in what the stats say, we are interested in
whether there are people keeping ready to respond when necessary.

> More complementary information
> may be needed, of course, to reach conclusions.

That complimentary information is provided by the human beings who write
the board reports. As a director I don't want to spend my time looking for
it because a misleading stat is flashing a red light.

Note, this doesn't mean individual PMCs would not find these indicators
helpful. I am only saying that people outside the project, those without
the complimentary information, can be misled by stats.

As for what would be useful (in a board report as opposed to PMC dashboard)
I think the items I identified in my first mail are valuable. You could
also look at the clutch report and see if you can provide more complete
information behind the data points in that. See
http://incubator.apache.org/clutch.html

Ross

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