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From Nikolay Izhikov <nizhi...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Replacing default work dir from tmp to current dir
Date Thu, 03 Oct 2019 11:22:59 GMT
Alexey.

> Ignite is widely used in embedded scenarios; the ability to process data
> in-process locally is very powerful and I see no reason why we should
> remove it

I don't propose to remove something.
I wrote about "same distribution".

Seems, we should have different defaults and even distributions for different usage scenarios.

> As an example,
> both SQLite, and rocksdb are distributed as a library, so I see no issues
> in Ignite server side being a library.

As far as I know, both rocksdb and SQLite is local only libraries and don't have any distrubted features.


>"current directory" as persistence directory is not consistent.

I agree with you.
How it happens, that after wide discussion we implemented, reviewed and merged wrong defaults?

As I know, we have explicit release only to change this default.

This release is broken, isn't it?

В Чт, 03/10/2019 в 14:03 +0300, Alexey Goncharuk пишет:
> Nikolay,
> 
> Ignite is widely used in embedded scenarios; the ability to process data
> in-process locally is very powerful and I see no reason why we should
> remove it. I absolutely agree with Pavel T. on the subject. As an example,
> both SQLite, and rocksdb are distributed as a library, so I see no issues
> in Ignite server side being a library.
> 
> As long as Ignite is available as a maven library, we should provide a
> consistent node behavior; "current directory" as persistence directory is
> not consistent.
> 
> чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 13:52, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhikov@apache.org>:
> 
> > Pavel.
> > 
> > > As a user, why would I want to define a system-wide property just to use
> > > some library?
> > 
> > Why do you think Ignite is a library?
> > May be the root of usability issues in using same distribution for a
> > library and server side dbms?
> > 
> > 
> > В Чт, 03/10/2019 в 13:40 +0300, Pavel Tupitsyn пишет:
> > > Ivan, which vendors place files into current work dir, can you please
> > 
> > give
> > > an example?
> > > 
> > > > Generally IGNITE_HOME should be defined
> > > 
> > > This is an inconvenience for the users, bad usability.
> > > As a user, why would I want to define a system-wide property just to use
> > > some library?
> > > 
> > > > As for .NET. Should not we define IGNITE_HOME for it?
> > > 
> > > No, for the reasons stated above.
> > > 
> > > I'd like everyone to pay more attention to Maven/NuGet distribution
> > > scenario. Forget about zip archive for a while.
> > > As a user, I add a dependency to Ignite package and call
> > 
> > Ignition.start().
> > > That's all, it should work right away, no env vars, no additional
> > > configuration.
> > > And current work dir should not matter, because different tools, IDEs and
> > > workflows dictate different work directories.
> > > 
> > > > user.home can be not writable as well
> > > 
> > > In this case users won't even be able to use Maven or NuGet, let's not
> > > consider those rare scenarios.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To summarize: home directory is the way to go as a default location.
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 12:14 PM Ivan Pavlukhin <vololo100@gmail.com>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > As for .NET. Should not we define IGNITE_HOME for it?
> > > > 
> > > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 12:13, Ivan Pavlukhin <vololo100@gmail.com>:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Folks,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am with Ilya here. I remind that we are talking not about general
> > > > > case for Ignite usage. Generally IGNITE_HOME should be defined.
> > > > > Otherwise we fallback to a default, and user.dir usually points to a
> > > > > directory where java launcher command was called (work dir).
> > > > > 
> > > > > user.home seems to cause more surprises to me:
> > > > > * user.home can be undefined for JVM;
> > > > > * user.home can be not writable as well (e.g. some special service
> > 
> > user).
> > > > > 
> > > > > And as far as know other vendors usually place files required for an
> > > > > application in current work dir.
> > > > > 
> > > > > чт, 3 окт. 2019 г. в 01:45, Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org>:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I was always expecting this to be a user *home* directory that can
> > 
> > be
> > > > > > resolved in any operating system and will work for any language
> > > > 
> > > > supported
> > > > > > by Ignite. So, I'm with Pavel here.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Alex G, what's your thinking? Sounds like we need to change this
> > 
> > one
> > > > 
> > > > more
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:17 PM Pavel Tupitsyn <
> > 
> > ptupitsyn@apache.org>
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Everyone above agreed to `~/ignite/work`, then somehow we jumped
> > 
> > to
> > > > > > > `user.dir/ignite/work`.
> > > > > > > To me `user.dir` looked like synonym for ~, but turns out this is
> > > > 
> > > > not true.
> > > > > > > I think others may be confused in the same way.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Denis Magda, Alexey Goncharuk, and others - please confirm that
> > 
> > you
> > > > > > > understand that `user.dir` means current directory, not user home
> > > > > > > directory.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > In my opinion, this is very broken. Current work dir can be
> > 
> > literally
> > > > > > > anything, e.g.:
> > > > > > > `cd / && ~/my-ignite-app/run.sh` will cause an attempt to create
> > > > 
> > > > ignite dir
> > > > > > > in system root, and so on.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:46 PM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > > 
> > > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Hello!
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I think this is a sensible default and it was certainly not
> > 
> > chosen
> > > > 
> > > > by
> > > > > > > > mistake. It was intentional expectation that your project is
> > > > 
> > > > started from
> > > > > > > > project root and data is located under it.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > If this breaks .Net, I am deeply sorry.
> > > > > > > > However, I think we should change .net to provide non-default
> > > > 
> > > > workdir
> > > > > > > > location when none is specified.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Can you please clarify scenarios that are broken now?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ср, 2 окт. 2019 г., 20:28 Pavel Tupitsyn <ptupitsyn@apache.org
> > > 
> > > :
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Looks like we made a mistake while implementing IGNITE-12057:
> > > > > > > > > `user.dir` is NOT user home directory, it is where JVM has
> > 
> > been
> > > > 
> > > > started
> > > > > > > > > from, which is rather arbitrary.
> > > > > > > > > (Among other things this breaks Ignite.NET usage from tools
> > 
> > like
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > LINQPad,
> > > > > > > > > because `user.dir` ends up pointing to Program Files, which
> > 
> > is
> > > > 
> > > > not
> > > > > > > > > writable without elevation)
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > We should use `user.home` system property instead, see
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/environment/sysprop.html
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Thoughts, objections?
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2019 at 1:57 PM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Hello again!
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Please note that I have updated release notes for
> > 
> > IGNITE-12057
> > > > 
> > > > as
> > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > added them for my ticket. Release Engineers, please make
> > 
> > sure
> > > > 
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > include
> > > > > > > > > > the latest one.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > пн, 2 сент. 2019 г. в 13:33, Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello!
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > I have pushed an amended fix to both master and
> > 
> > ignite-2.7.6.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > пт, 30 авг. 2019 г. в 21:48, Denis Magda <
> > 
> > dmagda@apache.org
> > > > > 
> > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya,
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot to push "Send for review" button. You can see
> > 
> > my
> > > > 
> > > > minor
> > > > > > > > > comment
> > > > > > > > > > > > now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 5:47 AM Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Waiting for a minor comment from Denis, as soon as I
> > > > 
> > > > see/fix it
> > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to commit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 30 авг. 2019 г. в 11:30, Alexey Goncharuk <
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > alexey.goncharuk@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Ilya,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just curious, when are you planning to commit your
> > > > 
> > > > changes to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2.7.6
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > branch?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ср, 28 авг. 2019 г. в 04:57, Denis Magda <
> > > > 
> > > > dmagda@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, seems like we came to a consensus. Let’s
> > 
> > ensure
> > > > 
> > > > that the
> > > > > > > > > path
> > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work dir is user.dir/ignite/work and restart the
> > 
> > vote.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, Ilya Kasnacheev <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ilya.kasnacheev@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have took the liberty to implement the
> > 
> > change to
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > existing
> > > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > > > > > base
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remove concern about work/ directory:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > 
> > https://github.com/apache/ignite/pull/6816/files
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some advocacy for this patch:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Minimal change.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Storing in user.dir/ignite/work (current
> > > > 
> > > > directory, e.g.
> > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > root)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which is consistent with behavior of unzipped
> > 
> > binary
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > release.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We can re-use user.dir/ignite for other uses
> > 
> > in
> > > > 
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > future,
> > > > > > > > > > > > such as
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > storing logs there.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to admit that my previous reaction to
> > 
> > the
> > > > 
> > > > change
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > > > > > > > strong.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turned out the default was user.dir/work
> > 
> > (project
> > > > 
> > > > root)
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > user.home/work (home dir with imminent Work
> > > > 
> > > > collision).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nevertheless, I think that after this change it
> > > > 
> > > > would be
> > > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > last for a few years.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ilya Kasnacheev
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 18:28, Alexey Goncharuk <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alexey.goncharuk@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the current state of the project, we
> > 
> > cannot
> > > > 
> > > > directly
> > > > > > > > > > compare
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > setup process to the one of postgresql or
> > 
> > another
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > database.
> > > > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examples, an embedded node (even with
> > > > 
> > > > persistence) is
> > > > > > > > > started
> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supposed to run without any additional FS
> > 
> > rights
> > > > 
> > > > grants
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > init
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > steps.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may be changed in 3.0, but not in a
> > 
> > maintenance
> > > > 
> > > > release.
> > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > change the directory to /var/lib, I would
> > 
> > rather
> > > > 
> > > > fail
> > > > > > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > > > > node
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > start
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > asking a user to explicitly provide work
> > > > 
> > > > directory path.
> > > > > > > > Let
> > > > > > > > > > > > alone
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /var/lib
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is not portable and I would not add an
> > 
> > OS-switch
> > > > 
> > > > to the
> > > > > > > > code
> > > > > > > > > > > > for no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reason.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I vote for storing the work in ~/ignite/work
> > 
> > -
> > > > 
> > > > agree
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > Ilya
> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > writing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > large amounts of data in a hidden folder is
> > 
> > a bad
> > > > 
> > > > idea.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 15:17, Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > dpavlov@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Igniters,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that user home maybe not the best
> > 
> > place
> > > > 
> > > > from
> > > > > > > > Linux
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perspective
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > philosophy, but  "user.home"/ignite/work
> > 
> > is
> > > > 
> > > > more or
> > > > > > > > less
> > > > > > > > > > > > > portable.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the Linux environment, we can add a
> > > > 
> > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > where to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > place
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persisted data. For very first testing of
> > 
> > Apache
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > > > > home
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looks good for me.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 11:56, Pavel
> > 
> > Pereslegin <
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > xxtern@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or instead of a WARNING, we can add a
> > > > 
> > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > recommendation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the production environment.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > вт, 27 авг. 2019 г. в 11:41, Petr Ivanov
> > 
> > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > mr.weider@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /opt is either does not exist on fresh
> > > > 
> > > > system, or
> > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > restriction: no user access without admin
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > intervention.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /usr/local, /var/lib, etc. — all this
> > 
> > is
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > implemented
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > DEB /
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RPM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > packages already.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For ZIP installation %HOME% seems to
> > 
> > be the
> > > > 
> > > > best
> > > > > > > > > > approach
> > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2-click"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > launch.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Later user can update preferences and
> > 
> > set
> > > > 
> > > > working
> > > > > > > > dir
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > whatever
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory he would like.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also — we can put WARNING message to
> > 
> > log
> > > > 
> > > > noting
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > WORK_DIR
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > default.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Aug 2019, at 10:16, Zhenya
> > > > 
> > > > Stanilovsky
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arzamas123@mail.ru.INVALID> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what about /opt/ignite ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > copy-paste:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The basic difference is that
> > 
> > /usr/local
> > > > 
> > > > is for
> > > > > > > > > > > > software
> > > > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by the system packager, but still
> > 
> > following
> > > > 
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > standard
> > > > > > > > > > > > unix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deployment
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rules.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why you have  /usr/local/bin ,
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > /usr/local/sbin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  /usr/local/include  etc...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /opt  on the other hand is for
> > 
> > software
> > > > 
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > > > > > follow
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is deployed in a monolithic fashion. This
> > > > 
> > > > usually
> > > > > > > > > includes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commercial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and/or cross-platform software that is
> > > > 
> > > > packaged in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Windows"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > style. "
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Понедельник, 26 августа 2019, 22:49
> > > > 
> > > > +03:00 от
> > > > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > > > > > > > Magda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dmagda@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't disagree with Nikolay
> > 
> > that, as a
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > database,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > persist
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changes to a folder different from
> > > > 
> > > > "user.home"
> > > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rate of project growth and
> > 
> > adoption, I
> > > > 
> > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > encourage
> > > > > > > > > > > > us
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > eliminate any
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > possible obstacles a user might
> > 
> > come
> > > > 
> > > > across
> > > > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > getting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > started
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > phase with Ignite. Unfortunately,
> > 
> > folders
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "user.home"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imply
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a significant restriction - the
> > 
> > user
> > > > 
> > > > needs to
> > > > > > > > allow
> > > > > > > > > > > > access
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > folders
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /lib, /etc; which can make every
> > 
> > getting
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > started
> > > > > > > > > demo
> > > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > app
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fail.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, today, I'm casting my vote
> > 
> > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "user.home"/ignite/work
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please don't forget about Windows
> > 
> > and
> > > > 
> > > > MacOS.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 7:09 AM
> > 
> > Pavel
> > > > 
> > > > Tupitsyn
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ptupitsyn@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for  ~/.ignite/work
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Petr mentioned above, this
> > > > 
> > > > translates well
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > Windows
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MacOS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > too, we
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can use "home directory" term in
> > > > 
> > > > documentation
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > works
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OS.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 4:03 PM
> > 
> > Nikolay
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Izhikov
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nizhikov@apache.org >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AFAIK server admin expects
> > 
> > software
> > > > 
> > > > will
> > > > > > > store
> > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > data
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /var/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > directory, not in /home
> > 
> > directory.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Docker age, packages are
> > 
> > becoming
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > extinct.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't agree with that, but
> > 
> > seems,
> > > > 
> > > > it's not
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion. :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we don't even have very good
> > 
> > packages
> > > > 
> > > > today
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think we don't have
> > 
> > good
> > > > 
> > > > packages?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is wrong with the current
> > 
> > one?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think we should not
> > 
> > copy what
> > > > 
> > > > other
> > > > > > > > DBMS
> > > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ease-of-use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is usually lacking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should define 'easy-of-use'
> > 
> > here.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience with the modern
> > > > 
> > > > dbms(postgres
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > mysql)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > В Пн, 26/08/2019 в 15:47
> > 
> > +0300, Ilya
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Kasnacheev
> > > > > > > > > > > > пишет:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is 2., because if
> > 
> > a node
> > > > 
> > > > is run
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > binary
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distribution
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it has its root as a ignite
> > 
> > work
> > > > 
> > > > directory.
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > argument
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for keeping data under
> > 
> > current dir -
> > > > 
> > > > Ignite
> > > > > > > > > binary
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distribution
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does it, why should embedded
> > 
> > scenario
> > > > 
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > different?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Docker age, packages are
> > 
> > becoming
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > extinct.
> > > > > > > > > > Nobody
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wants
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anymore,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway. I don't see why we
> > 
> > should aim
> > > > 
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > very good packages today,
> > 
> > and nobody
> > > > 
> > > > wants
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > contribute
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > towards
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > improvement.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think we should not
> > 
> > copy what
> > > > 
> > > > other
> > > > > > > > DBMS
> > > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ease-of-use
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is usually lacking (this is
> > 
> > from
> > > > 
> > > > someone who
> > > > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mysql
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pgsql
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > deployments).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhenya Stanilovsky
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Ivan Pavlukhin
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Ivan Pavlukhin
> > > > 

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