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From Павлухин Иван <vololo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [discussion] using custom build of H2 for Ignite
Date Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:08:14 GMT
Nikolay,

Could you please elaborate why is it "closed source"?

> What the difference for the Ignite community?
The difference is similar to using version X and version Y of the same
library. Version Y might be better.

> I think all Ignite commiters should have write priveledges to H2 fork.
I agree, it is quite natural. Actually, my only point is that we can
do it at any point later, cannot we?

ср, 10 июл. 2019 г. в 12:25, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhikov@apache.org>:
>
> Ivan
>
> We have closed source code dependency for now owned by H2 owners.
> With new fork we will have the same closed dependency owned by Grid Gain.
>
> What the difference for the Ignite community?
>
> > 2. Anyways some process must be established for merging changes
> > requiring changes in h2 library. So, I suppose it should be review of
> > changes in 2 repositories.
>
> The question is - *Who can apply those changes*.
>
> I think all Ignite commiters should have write priveledges to H2 fork.
>
> В Ср, 10/07/2019 в 11:30 +0300, Павлухин Иван пишет:
> > Folks,
> >
> > I would like to highlight a couple of points.
> > 1. Perhaps it is not so crucial where is this fork located if the code
> > is publicly available and can be cloned to another repository easily.
> > We can relocate code and use it at any point in future.
> > 2. Anyways some process must be established for merging changes
> > requiring changes in h2 library. So, I suppose it should be review of
> > changes in 2 repositories.
> >
> > Now (and beforehand) we use original h2. And how many of us were ever
> > interested what changes were made in h2? So, perhaps for the first
> > time we can start with GG fork? And if later on some problems with
> > that appear we can clone it and use that new fork without much
> > trouble, can't we?
> >
> > ср, 10 июл. 2019 г. в 09:52, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhikov@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > Hello, Denis.
> > >
> > > > Nickolay, as for that fork which is in GG codebase - GridGain is a major
> > > > contributor and maintainer but the others are welcomed to send
> > > > pull-requests.
> > >
> > > Can we make this fork maintained by Ignite Community?
> > >
> > > With all respect to Grid Gain as an author of Apache Ignite I don't like when
some huge dependencies
> > > (incompatible with community-driven analogue) belongs to the enterprise.
> > >
> > > This leads us to the situation when Grid Gain will decide which features will
be added to the SQL engine and which not.
> > >
> > > В Пн, 08/07/2019 в 13:51 -0700, Denis Magda пишет:
> > > > Dmitry,
> > > >
> > > > To make this fully-vendor neutral even at the originating repository level,
> > > > we can create and work with the H2 fork as a separate Github repo (separate
> > > > project governed and maintained by Ignite community). That repo can't
be
> > > > part of Ignite due to license mismatch. Thus, during release times, we
need
> > > > to assemble a binary (maven artifact) from that fork.
> > > >
> > > > However, it's not clear to me how to use those sources during the dev
time?
> > > > It sounds like Ignite can use only the binary (Maven) artifact that has
to
> > > > be updated/regenerated if there are any changes. *SQL experts*, could
you
> > > > please step in?
> > > >
> > > > Nickolay, as for that fork which is in GG codebase - GridGain is a major
> > > > contributor and maintainer but the others are welcomed to send
> > > > pull-requests.
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > Denis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 9:26 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov@apache.org>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Denis,
> > > > >
> > > > > As you know, some time ago I've started a discussion about removing
> > > > > dependence from gridgain:shmem. Ignite community seems to be not
so much
> > > > > interested in this removal, for now. So once added it could stay
here
> > > > > forever. Reverse dependency direction seems to be more natural. It
is like
> > > > > the open-core model.
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel more comfortable if all Ignite dependencies are released as
part of
> > > > > the Ignite code base, or some open governed project with a license
from
> > > > > Category A https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is true that H2 has Category B license, so derivative can't be
committed
> > > > > into ASF repository.
> > > > >
> > > > > What if we consult with legal@apache.org to find additional ways
to donate
> > > > > forked version into ASF codebase? We anyway need their approval because
> > > > > gridgain/h2 has a non-standard license, so we should approve including
> > > > > non-standard licensed component it the product.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > > >
> > > > > чт, 4 июл. 2019 г. в 18:57, Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Igniters,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you know, Ignite SQL engine is tightly coupled with the H2
database
> > > > >
> > > > > that
> > > > > > provides basic parsing and query execution capabilities.  This
synergy
> > > > >
> > > > > has
> > > > > > worked well for a while until Ignite SQL engine got a much broader
> > > > >
> > > > > adoption
> > > > > > for all sort of use cases.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Presently, there is a list of impactful issues and limitations
related to
> > > > > > memory management, distributed engine optimization, and queries
planning
> > > > > > that require changes in H2. We've tried to contribute to H2
directly with
> > > > > > no significant luck - what's needed for our distributed engine
is of no
> > > > > > interest to H2 community. At the same time, we can't leave the
things as
> > > > > > is, as long as these limitations keep Ignite SQL engine from
gradual
> > > > > > evolution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a solution, we created an H2 fork [1] and did all of the
required
> > > > > > changes there. We would be happy to include the fork into Ignite
source
> > > > > > base, but H2's license (available under dual MPL 2.0 and EPL
1.0) is not
> > > > > > compliant with Apache 2.0. However, if Ignite starts using our
maven
> > > > > > artifacts instead of the standard H2's ones, then the licensing
issue is
> > > > > > solved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is the community ready to accept this solution and swap the
standard H2
> > > > > > artifact with the one prepared by GridGain? Presently, all of
those
> > > > > > improvements are available to GridGain customers, but GridGain
wants to
> > > > > > make all of them be available for Ignite community. And that's
the only
> > > > > > legal way we've come up with...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://github.com/gridgain/gridgain/tree/master/modules/h2
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > Denis
> > > > > >
> >
> >
> >



-- 
Best regards,
Ivan Pavlukhin

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