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From Dmitriy Pavlov <dpav...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [discussion] using custom build of H2 for Ignite
Date Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:17:53 GMT
Wearing the hat of Apache Ignite PMC:
I'm against starting with dependency on GridGain code in any case. Gridgain
can do its own forks of both.

We all know how much influence the company has on the community and adding
one more (I remind there is gridgain:shmem)
means the open-governed solution is dependent on closely-governed. Would
you use something open-source if it depends on binaries? I don't care about
license in that case.

you can count on '-1' from my side.

GitHub project outside any commercial company accounts, there all Apache
committers added as collaborators may work.


ср, 10 июл. 2019 г. в 13:28, Юрий <jury.gerzhedowich@gmail.com>:

> Agree with Ivan.
>
> We can start work with H2 fork owned by GG and decide change it later in
> case it will bring some issues to Ignite community. Currently I don't see
> any issues here.
>
> I'm worried about the issue, with process to synchonize changes H2 fork and
> Ignite. As possible solution it could be as follow:
> Ignite has dependency only to released version of H2 fork.
> Then we could modify the fork in any time without compatibility issues.
> When new feature is ready to use by Ignite need to modify code of Ignite
> and change dependency version for H2 fork.
> However H2 for in the case should be release more often than Ignite.
>
> WDYT?
>
> ср, 10 июл. 2019 г. в 13:08, Павлухин Иван <vololo100@gmail.com>:
>
> > Nikolay,
> >
> > Could you please elaborate why is it "closed source"?
> >
> > > What the difference for the Ignite community?
> > The difference is similar to using version X and version Y of the same
> > library. Version Y might be better.
> >
> > > I think all Ignite commiters should have write priveledges to H2 fork.
> > I agree, it is quite natural. Actually, my only point is that we can
> > do it at any point later, cannot we?
> >
> > ср, 10 июл. 2019 г. в 12:25, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhikov@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > Ivan
> > >
> > > We have closed source code dependency for now owned by H2 owners.
> > > With new fork we will have the same closed dependency owned by Grid
> Gain.
> > >
> > > What the difference for the Ignite community?
> > >
> > > > 2. Anyways some process must be established for merging changes
> > > > requiring changes in h2 library. So, I suppose it should be review of
> > > > changes in 2 repositories.
> > >
> > > The question is - *Who can apply those changes*.
> > >
> > > I think all Ignite commiters should have write priveledges to H2 fork.
> > >
> > > В Ср, 10/07/2019 в 11:30 +0300, Павлухин Иван пишет:
> > > > Folks,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to highlight a couple of points.
> > > > 1. Perhaps it is not so crucial where is this fork located if the
> code
> > > > is publicly available and can be cloned to another repository easily.
> > > > We can relocate code and use it at any point in future.
> > > > 2. Anyways some process must be established for merging changes
> > > > requiring changes in h2 library. So, I suppose it should be review of
> > > > changes in 2 repositories.
> > > >
> > > > Now (and beforehand) we use original h2. And how many of us were ever
> > > > interested what changes were made in h2? So, perhaps for the first
> > > > time we can start with GG fork? And if later on some problems with
> > > > that appear we can clone it and use that new fork without much
> > > > trouble, can't we?
> > > >
> > > > ср, 10 июл. 2019 г. в 09:52, Nikolay Izhikov <nizhikov@apache.org>:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello, Denis.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Nickolay, as for that fork which is in GG codebase - GridGain
is
> a
> > major
> > > > > > contributor and maintainer but the others are welcomed to send
> > > > > > pull-requests.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can we make this fork maintained by Ignite Community?
> > > > >
> > > > > With all respect to Grid Gain as an author of Apache Ignite I don't
> > like when some huge dependencies
> > > > > (incompatible with community-driven analogue) belongs to the
> > enterprise.
> > > > >
> > > > > This leads us to the situation when Grid Gain will decide which
> > features will be added to the SQL engine and which not.
> > > > >
> > > > > В Пн, 08/07/2019 в 13:51 -0700, Denis Magda пишет:
> > > > > > Dmitry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To make this fully-vendor neutral even at the originating
> > repository level,
> > > > > > we can create and work with the H2 fork as a separate Github
repo
> > (separate
> > > > > > project governed and maintained by Ignite community). That repo
> > can't be
> > > > > > part of Ignite due to license mismatch. Thus, during release
> > times, we need
> > > > > > to assemble a binary (maven artifact) from that fork.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, it's not clear to me how to use those sources during
the
> > dev time?
> > > > > > It sounds like Ignite can use only the binary (Maven) artifact
> > that has to
> > > > > > be updated/regenerated if there are any changes. *SQL experts*,
> > could you
> > > > > > please step in?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nickolay, as for that fork which is in GG codebase - GridGain
is
> a
> > major
> > > > > > contributor and maintainer but the others are welcomed to send
> > > > > > pull-requests.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -
> > > > > > Denis
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 9:26 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <
> dpavlov@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Denis,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As you know, some time ago I've started a discussion about
> > removing
> > > > > > > dependence from gridgain:shmem. Ignite community seems
to be
> not
> > so much
> > > > > > > interested in this removal, for now. So once added it could
> stay
> > here
> > > > > > > forever. Reverse dependency direction seems to be more
natural.
> > It is like
> > > > > > > the open-core model.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I feel more comfortable if all Ignite dependencies are
released
> > as part of
> > > > > > > the Ignite code base, or some open governed project with
a
> > license from
> > > > > > > Category A https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is true that H2 has Category B license, so derivative
can't
> > be committed
> > > > > > > into ASF repository.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What if we consult with legal@apache.org to find additional
> > ways to donate
> > > > > > > forked version into ASF codebase? We anyway need their
approval
> > because
> > > > > > > gridgain/h2 has a non-standard license, so we should approve
> > including
> > > > > > > non-standard licensed component it the product.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > чт, 4 июл. 2019 г. в 18:57, Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Igniters,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As you know, Ignite SQL engine is tightly coupled
with the H2
> > database
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > provides basic parsing and query execution capabilities.
> This
> > synergy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > worked well for a while until Ignite SQL engine got
a much
> > broader
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > adoption
> > > > > > > > for all sort of use cases.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Presently, there is a list of impactful issues and
> limitations
> > related to
> > > > > > > > memory management, distributed engine optimization,
and
> > queries planning
> > > > > > > > that require changes in H2. We've tried to contribute
to H2
> > directly with
> > > > > > > > no significant luck - what's needed for our distributed
> engine
> > is of no
> > > > > > > > interest to H2 community. At the same time, we can't
leave
> the
> > things as
> > > > > > > > is, as long as these limitations keep Ignite SQL engine
from
> > gradual
> > > > > > > > evolution.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a solution, we created an H2 fork [1] and did all
of the
> > required
> > > > > > > > changes there. We would be happy to include the fork
into
> > Ignite source
> > > > > > > > base, but H2's license (available under dual MPL 2.0
and EPL
> > 1.0) is not
> > > > > > > > compliant with Apache 2.0. However, if Ignite starts
using
> our
> > maven
> > > > > > > > artifacts instead of the standard H2's ones, then
the
> > licensing issue is
> > > > > > > > solved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is the community ready to accept this solution and
swap the
> > standard H2
> > > > > > > > artifact with the one prepared by GridGain? Presently,
all of
> > those
> > > > > > > > improvements are available to GridGain customers,
but
> GridGain
> > wants to
> > > > > > > > make all of them be available for Ignite community.
And
> that's
> > the only
> > > > > > > > legal way we've come up with...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > https://github.com/gridgain/gridgain/tree/master/modules/h2
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > Denis
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Ivan Pavlukhin
> >
>
>
> --
> Живи с улыбкой! :D
>

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