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From Nikolay Izhikov <nizhi...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Apache Ignite 2.7 release
Date Sun, 30 Sep 2018 07:49:28 GMT
Hello, guys.

I moved SG tasks to 2.8.

В Сб, 29/09/2018 в 17:11 +0300, Vladimir Ozerov пишет:
> I fully support Dmitry's concerns. I do not see a single chance for Service
> Grid to be included into 2.7 scope, but we are still keeping hope alive.
> What for? Our experience shows, that any feature involving consensus
> algorithms typically take weeks to be finalized after initial public
> review. Yes, it is possible that at some day in October we will see it
> completed, but what about testing? What about regressions with other
> components? Let me reming you that from Monday a lot of efforts will be put
> into project stabilization. This is the sole purpose of that pre-release
> phase. Accepting a patch with deep rework of Ignite internals in the middle
> of that process, means that our effrots will be lost. This is simply a
> matter of respect to contributor's time.
> 
> Another problem is that this false hope puts us at rush. Rush during
> design, development, review, testing. Result is known - bad features, which
> makes damage to the project.
> 
> So my question is - why don't we just want to move it to AI 2.8 right now?
> Feature is big, feature is very far from being ready. This simple action
> immediately shifts the focus from dates to quality of the product, and
> remove any risks that potential merge will defeat stabilization effrots of
> other contributors.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 8:32 AM Vyacheslav Daradur <daradurvs@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Dmitriy,
> > 
> > Hot redeployment and versioning will not be implemented in phase 1,
> > but it is scheduled once it is finished.
> > 
> > Here is an umbrella ticket [1] to track phase 1 scope.
> > 
> > It includes very few new features, but we completely rework component
> > to improve guarantees to be more reliable and we build the base for
> > new features.
> > 
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-9607
> > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 9:38 PM Dmitriy Setrakyan <dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > I am not sure I can agree. SG redesign includes:
> > > - hot redeployment
> > > - versioning
> > > 
> > > In my experience, features like these take about 1 month to test properly
> > > and fix all the bugs, including redeployment tests and restart tests on
> > > larger topologies, together with overnight runs. If this type of testing
> > > has not been performed, I think it would be unreasonable to expect this
> > > feature making it into the release.
> > > 
> > > Can someone comment on the testing?
> > > 
> > > D.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 10:38 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Nikolay, because I think you're a do'er, but not a commenter, like me,
> > 
> > for
> > > > example, I can trust your opinion.
> > > > 
> > > > I will join review if I have spare cycles.
> > > > 
> > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 20:34, Denis Magda <dmagda@apache.org>:
> > > > 
> > > > > Nikolay,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks for stepping in and giving more context. In general, I'm
> > 
> > fully for
> > > > > your proposal below:
> > > > > 
> > > > > My vote goes to option *a*.
> > > > > > I think we should release 2.7 with the bunch of new cool features.
> > > > > > *AND* we should plan 2.8 release at the end of the year with SG
> > > > 
> > > > redesign
> > > > > > and MVCC stabilization tasks.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
> > > > > Denis
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 10:30 AM Nikolay Izhikov <
> > 
> > nizhikov@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Hello, Igniters.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I think we shouldn't put so many emotions in discussion of any
> > > > > > contribution.
> > > > > > Even so big and important as SG redesign.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The crucial point we all agreed about: Service Grid redesign a big
> > > > > 
> > > > > feature
> > > > > > that can significally improve Ignite.
> > > > > > We all want to have it in the product.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Let me write my vision of the current task state:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1. Design of SG is discussed *and aligned* both: privately with
> > 
> > Ignite
> > > > > > experts(Vladimir Ozerov, Alexey Goncharyuk, Anton Vinogradov, Denis
> > > > > > Mekhanikov)
> > > > > > and publicly on dev-list. This task is done.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2. Current PR state - *on my review*.
> > > > > > I spend some time with this contribution and gave Vyacheslav a
> > > > 
> > > > feedback.
> > > > > > I expect he can fix my comments in a day or two.
> > > > > > Seem we can ask of Anton Vinogradov review on the beginning of next
> > > > 
> > > > week.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If Dmitriy or any community member wants to help *by doing things,
> > 
> > not
> > > > > > discussing them on dev-list*.
> > > > > > Please, join to the review - you are welcome. PR is here [1]
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 3. I think, we have two mutually exclusive options regarding of
> > 
> > release
> > > > > > 2.7
> > > > > >         a. We release 2.7 in planned dates.
> > > > > >         b. We include SG in release scope.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > My vote goes to option *a*.
> > > > > > I think we should release 2.7 with the bunch of new cool features.
> > > > > > *AND* we should plan 2.8 release at the end of the year with SG
> > > > 
> > > > redesign
> > > > > > and MVCC stabilization tasks.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Anyway, while we preparing release a lot of things can happen.
> > > > > > Let's come back to discussion of SG release version *when it will
> > 
> > be
> > > > > ready
> > > > > > to be merged to master*.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Guys, does it makes sense for you?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/ignite/pull/4434
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > В Пт, 28/09/2018 в 19:47 +0300, Dmitriy Pavlov пишет:
> > > > > > > Hi Dmitriy,
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The design is aligned totally. The thread you mention was not
> > 
> > named
> > > > > > > properly.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > It seems to me some community members are trying to take over the
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > community
> > > > > > > and lead it instead of doing.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > As a member of the Apache community, I value Do-ocracy and power
> > 
> > of
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > who do, but not just disagree. There are no leaders in open
> > 
> > source,
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > do'ers.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > By do'ers here I mean Nikolay and Vyacheslav. For me, their
> > > > 
> > > > conclusion
> > > > > > has
> > > > > > > more weight here. If Vladimir is ready to lead an additional
> > 
> > release
> > > > > for
> > > > > > SG
> > > > > > > and SG developers agree, it works for me.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 19:39, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > 
> > > > dsetrakyan@apache.org
> > > > > > :
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Dmitriy,
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > We agreed in the beginning of this thread that Service Grid
> > 
> > changes
> > > > > > are not
> > > > > > > > going to make the release because the community still did not
> > > > 
> > > > approve
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > design. Nothing has changed since. I have not seen any design
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > discussions.
> > > > > > > > At this point, I have no confidence that the Service Grid
> > 
> > changes
> > > > > will
> > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > it into the 2.8 release. The 2.7 release seems out of question
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > altogether.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Also, Nikolay is a release manager. We should let him drive the
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > release. To
> > > > > > > > my knowledge, he is doing a great job and the release is going
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > according to
> > > > > > > > the schedule he proposed.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > D.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 4:31 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > > > > 
> > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Hi Dmitriy, Vladimir,
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I suggest we stop this nonsense with release dates-pushing
> > > > 
> > > > because
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > open question.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Just because you disagreed with any include/exclude something
> > > > 
> > > > into
> > > > > > scope,
> > > > > > > > > does not mean that whole community disagreed.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > If folks will start a separate discussion with results of the
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > review, I
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > no reasons to reject their contribution, even if we need to
> > > > 
> > > > revisit
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > agreements and wait for a couple of days more.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Am I missing some reason why dates are so fundamentally
> > 
> > important
> > > > > to
> > > > > > you?
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 12:20, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > dsetrakyan@apache.org>:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > If services is not ready, which it is not, then we should
> > > > 
> > > > include
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > the next release. There is no need to force them into 2.7.
> > 
> > I
> > > > > > suggest we
> > > > > > > > > > move according to the schedule we all agreed on.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > D.
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 1:22 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, so correct statement is "community did not make any
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > decisions
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > services not go to 2.7/ services are out of scope".
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > If so, please forgive me my confusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 11:19, Vladimir Ozerov <
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. So correct statement is “it is up to
> > 
> > *community*
> > > > to
> > > > > > decide
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > > > > something goes to 2.7”.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 11:11, Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it is up to the community to discuss after their
> > > > 
> > > > review
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > results.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 11:09, Vladimir Ozerov <
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I read your words correctly that it is up to
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > implementor
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > of a
> > > > > > > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > feature to decide whether release of all other
> > 
> > features
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > fixes
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > delayed?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 11:00, Dmitriy Pavlov <
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point we can wait a bit for services because
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1  we are open-minded and we don't have outside
> > > > > 
> > > > > pressure
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > > release
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > October
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2  and services it is not some new feature, which
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > suddenly
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > appeared
> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > autumn, it is a well known and important feature.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it is up to Vyacheslav, Anton and Nikolay to
> > > > 
> > > > decide.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Decisions can be services are not ready/ready to
> > > > 
> > > > merge
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > master/ready
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to merge to master and to 2.7.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > пт, 28 сент. 2018 г. в 10:46, Vladimir Ozerov <
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitry,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Community agreement was to perform the release
> > 
> > in
> > > > > > October.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Of
> > > > > > > > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wait a bit for services. Then we wait a bit for
> > > > 
> > > > other
> > > > > > cool
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > features
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by that time, then again and again, and release
> > > > 
> > > > will
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > while we are waiting for new features to come,
> > > > > 
> > > > > already
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > completerd
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cannot be used by anyone.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why we have an agreement that if
> > 
> > feature is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ready,
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moved to future release, instead of shifting
> > > > 
> > > > release.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > sole
> > > > > > > > > > > > reason
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have strict dates when decisions are made is
> > 
> > to let
> > > > > > release
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > happen.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 2:22 AM Dmitriy Pavlov
> > 
> > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vladimir,  I'm not searching for enemy, and
> > 
> > not
> > > > > > fighting
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > happy about cases when we are hurrying.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can't fix test, fill ticket details, can't
> > > > 
> > > > wait
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > contributions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finish their tasks.  It is not best idea to
> > 
> > use
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > experience
> > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > commercial
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > companies in open source. Are there any
> > 
> > pressure
> > > > > > outside
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > community?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone promised rest of features to be
> > 
> > released
> > > > at
> > > > > > 30
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > September?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's remember principle do-orcracy, power of
> > > > 
> > > > those
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > do.
> > > > > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > contribor
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does change and reviewer does review, let's
> > 
> > give
> > > > > > right of
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decision
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to them, but not to some closed club of
> > 
> > people
> > > > who
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > privately
> > > > > > > > > > > > > discuss
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy Pavlov
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г., 23:42 Vyacheslav
> > 
> > Daradur <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > daradurvs@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Igniters!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I have written about Service Grid
> > 
> > before [1]
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > finalizing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solution to be sure that implementation is
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > reliable.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About including it in 2.7, if we talk that
> > 
> > code
> > > > > > freeze
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > tomorrow
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the solution is not ready to merge yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope that prereviewers Anton Vinogradov
> > 
> > and
> > > > > > Nikolay
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Izhikov
> > > > > > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > able to answer if solution out of scope or
> > 
> > not
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > 
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Apache-Ignite-2-7-release-td34076.html#a34485
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 11:14 PM Dmitriy
> > > > 
> > > > Pavlov <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I agree, NPE during WAL flush is
> > > > > 
> > > > > definitely
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > blocker.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is strange why the current test set
> > 
> > did
> > > > not
> > > > > > fail
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > after
> > > > > > > > > > > > > commit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г. в 21:45, Andrey
> > > > 
> > > > Kuznetsov
> > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > stkuzma@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Igniters,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've bumped into a new bug in WAL
> > 
> > manager
> > > > > > recently,
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > > > [1].
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > critical enough, and can be a good
> > > > 
> > > > candidate
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > fixing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.7
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you agree?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-9731
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г. в 19:45, Dmitriy
> > > > 
> > > > Pavlov
> > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need Vhyacheslav's opinion to be
> > > > > 
> > > > > absolutely
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > status
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We never committed to dates of
> > 
> > release,
> > > > as
> > > > > > well.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understand
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what can mean 'the community
> > 
> > committed to
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > doing/releasing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > something'.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About SG, I also concerned why such
> > 
> > a big
> > > > > > feature
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > quite a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions on the list. But it is
> > > > 
> > > > another
> > > > > > story.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г. в 19:33,
> > 
> > Vladimir
> > > > > > Ozerov <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop looking for enemies
> > > > > 
> > > > > everywhere.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Just
> > > > > > > > > > went
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and search for "service" word.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 7:30 PM
> > 
> > Denis
> > > > > > Magda <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dmagda@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis, as PMC Chair, could you
> > > > 
> > > > please
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > control,
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Service
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inclusion/exclusion is
> > 
> > discussed
> > > > > > properly
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > according
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Way.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's fine when
> > > > 
> > > > committers/contributors
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > private
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > related
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a feature they've been working
> > 
> > on.
> > > > Not
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > everything
> > > > > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dev
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > list. Otherwise, it will be
> > > > 
> > > > inundated.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > However,
> > > > > > > > > > > > agree,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > architectural
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and release decisions need to be
> > 
> > done
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > publicly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Speaking about Service Grid,
> > 
> > there
> > > > was
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > saw
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > questionable whether it gets
> > 
> > added to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > release
> > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Vladislav*, could you please
> > 
> > shed
> > > > some
> > > > > > light
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > current
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > status of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > service grid?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 9:12 AM
> > > > 
> > > > Dmitriy
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Pavlov <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let's wait for feedback
> > 
> > from SG
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Author(s)/Reviewer(s)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first. If
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not ready, ok. But I thought
> > 
> > it is
> > > > > > almost
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > done.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if I missed some
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > discussion (it
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > > happen),
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to the statement "our
> > > > > 
> > > > > current
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > agreement"
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can suspect some members are
> > > > 
> > > > making
> > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > sort
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > private
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agreements,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not to discuss it on the
> > 
> > list.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's build consensus here
> > 
> > first,
> > > > and
> > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > name
> > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agreement.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Denis, as PMC Chair, could you
> > > > 
> > > > please
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > control,
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Service
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grid
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > inclusion/exclusion is
> > 
> > discussed
> > > > > > properly
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > according
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Way.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г. в 18:55,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Ozerov
> > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitriy,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an outcome of current
> > > > 
> > > > state
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Service
> > > > > > > > > > > > Grid -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ready.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > never committed to have it to
> > > > 
> > > > 2.7.
> > > > > > Our goal
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > try
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > include
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.7.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 6:48
> > 
> > PM
> > > > > > Dmitriy
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Pavlov
> > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you please provide a
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > reference to
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > thread?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Probably I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > missed
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г. в
> > 
> > 18:46,
> > > > > > Vladimir
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Ozerov <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vozerov@gridgain.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our current agreement is
> > 
> > that
> > > > > > Service
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Grid
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scope.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > huge
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feature, which hasn't
> > 
> > entered
> > > > > > review
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > stage
> > > > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > > > > > far,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > able to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > review/fix/test it
> > 
> > properly.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at
> > 
> > 6:32
> > > > PM
> > > > > > Dmitriy
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Pavlov
> > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dpavlov.spb@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, and I prefer
> > 
> > four
> > > > > > weeks for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > stabilization*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oct -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 29
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oct)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do I understand it
> > > > 
> > > > correctly:
> > > > > > Service
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Grid
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > still
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scope,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > isn't
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it? I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find it very important.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г. в
> > > > 
> > > > 18:28,
> > > > > > Nikolay
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Izhikov <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nizhikov@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, Vova.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for clear
> > > > 
> > > > release
> > > > > > status.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm +1 for your
> > 
> > proposal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > чт, 27 сент. 2018 г.,
> > > > 
> > > > 18:25
> > > > > > Alexey
> > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kuznetsov
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > akuznetsov@apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vova,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge +1 to do a
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > stabilization.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alexey Kuznetsov
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   Andrey Kuznetsov.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, Vyacheslav D.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Best Regards, Vyacheslav D.
> > 

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