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From "Johnny Kewl" <>
Subject Re: [users@httpd] Anyone want to help me get started
Date Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:03:26 GMT

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Manne Ekström
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [users@httpd] Anyone want to help me get started


I want to know more about:
- is it rewarding developing in this community. What are drives you?
- how do you decide on what patches to work on, and how do you send in code 
and get it approved
- is the community working well today, or are there things that are annoying 
they way they work

I realize what I want to know right now is a bit fuzzy. We could discuss 
over the phone if that is easier for you (I live in Sweden).

Couldnt help smiling when I saw this question, I think to answer it 
properly, one could write a book.
If I'm not mistaken HttpD is the project that started it all, its the mother 
ship of open source community driven projects.

I think the enabling force behind the whole open source concept is linux, 
its a machine that takes source code as its input, the compiler is part of 
the OS, and its founder keeps it that way.
Any system that targets linux, essentially has no choice but to go open 

Thats where I think the roots are...
After that, the reasons people do it, is not easy to answer, and the more 
one hangs around open source projects, the more this convoluted landscape 
feels like you sitting on a socialistic Martian landscape.
When one looks out the window at the competitive forces of an economy at 
work, dog eat dog, it doesnt seem to fit, and I think this is where it 
really gets interesting.
I love to find an article that puts the business end of open source in 
perspective with all the players.

I think you have people like you and me, happy hackers, playing, and at the 
other end of the spectrum, the activity in an open-source project is the 
seed to other greater businesses.
For example if you came up with other SSL scheme, and wanted to contribute 
it to a project like this, and or to Suns java, I think you would meet the 
anonymous emailers in that business area, because now you'd be messing with 
a billion dollar business.

So what I'm saying is that there is the learning, play, discovery area in 
any open source project, and even though it is a commune-alism model, its 
still very much a business model, and the more active and thriving it is, 
the more money there is in that secondary layer above the project.
I'm fascinated by this as well, because it seems that the truely socialistic 
open source projects are dead empty shells, the money has run out and the 
authors now have girlfriends.
Others like this one and Suns open source efforts seem to be going strong... 
so there is money somewhere.

Its not an evil thing, I think its just a natural thing, people have to eat 
and survive, at first you use Apache in your business, then you have an idea 
and use it as a component in your business, and suddenly you very interested 
in making sure that its keeping up with Microsoft and others, SVG comes out, 
you want to make sure that its possible on apache, Java servlets come out, 
you want to connect it to the httpD... etc.

I'd love to see an article on Open Source and the Invisible business 
model... I think it would be fascinating reading.
There is a play dimension, and that leads to some wonderful innovation, but 
the "for the benevolent good of mankind" stuff, I dont buy.

You feed the project, because you have an angle... without that... noone 
eats, and there are no salaries.

As I discovered there are tensions out there as well, Sun and Apache seem to 
be like an old married couple, living in the same house, but would really 
like to have separate tv's... ha ha
I think there is some history that I missed...

Anyway... be aware that its not just extreme kindness, but having said that, 
this whole Apache open source project, including HttpD and Tomcat, Derby.... 
and the hundreds of others, is EXCELLENT.

So the question is always back at you... whats your angle.... if you have 
one, this and the other projects is a very good place to be.

Its intriguing, and I wish I understood it better as well, socialistic 
capatalism, and organized chaos, in what seems to be out of this world.... 

... whether you are playing, or have an idea thats going to kick Microsoft's 
butt, this is a good place to hang out.

Have fun... 

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