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From Robert Zagarello <bz...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: [users@httpd] Can this be Done?
Date Fri, 06 May 2005 12:23:15 GMT

Phillip,

I sympathize with your network issues.  All I can
offer is some general guidelines to assist in
debugging where the real problem(s) are occurring. 
Sometimes network problems are far from
straightforward and yes can be a pain in the arse.

What I suggest is for you to try to simplify your
access issues from outside your network using
small-step test scenarios (and I apologize if this
sounds way too general, not to sound like you haven't
tried doing this already, but just in case you haven't
tried this thinking - often it is easier to help
someone than to help yourself).  Sometimes all it
takes is to hear something truly irrelevant to help
with a problem, and that is what is best about forums.
 For example:

1. Get your internet access working with SSH before
trying to get it to work with your web service.

2. Another is to try accessing using your IP address
only when testing, because this removes the name
translation dependency.

3.  It has been my experience that browser access via
web service introduces issues not normally involved
with network access.  For example, if you haven't
rebooted or restarted your web browser and your
address on your web server has changed, your browser
may "remember" it in cache and not accept the new IP,
leading one to believe it is a network issue when in
fact it is the stupid browser (IE does this for
example).

4.  Remember that your web server needs to find you on
the remote side and this is what hosts and perhaps
resolv.conf on your web server is good for, and that
different OSs may handle resolv.conf differently (I
haven't had the need to mess with resolv.conf, for
example, in NetBSD, because I use DHCP).

5.  Remember that your web server, if on a private
LAN, is NATted through your router, and that you have
to tell different pieces of network access software
the right IP for a given name to work.  For example,
I've had to put my router's IP in my web server's
hosts file because otherwise it will translate itself
to its private LAN address when using its FQDN and
won't go to DNS to find it (this doesn't mean it will
work that way for another OS, for example).

If I think of anything else that may be completely
irrelevant that may trigger a thought to help solve a
problem I'll send again.

Good luck...  BZAG
===============================

--- NetSuporte <netsuporte@superig.com.br> wrote:

> For the novice the message it sends for DDNS
> configuration is use TZO or 
> don't configure DDNS here.
> 
> My objective is to have complete control, for now I
> am trying both the 
> DynDNS and the TZO  (free versions)  until I figure
> this out and it is 
> working. So far Apache2 is running fine my problem
> is access to my web 
> server from outside my local net.
> 
> Perhaps this is not where to go for my DNS issues. I
> am very grateful 
> for any help I can get though ( I tend to over
> complicate things).
> 
>  As it goes I am using Debian 3.1 and I am finding
> that a few things 
> have changed since I read about DNS configuration,
> as an example the 
> instructions step-by-step I have to setup a DNS
> server are not valid 
> with Debian as they decided to split the
> "named.conf" file into several 
> small conf files and move the "named" stuff all into
> /etc/bind. It makes 
> since but for a beginner jumping from file to file
> to understand 
> examples is a pain in the ass.
> 
> Bottom line it is still not working my California
> office cannot find my 
> website in Brazil.
> 
> One document I read says use local IP in the
> /etc/host for my system, 
> another says use the "assigned" IP from my ISP which
> is displayed on the 
> router interface and via the DynDNS/TZO control
> panels. Also I have 
> conflicting examples of what to put in "resolv.conf"
> and how to assign 
> my IP's or a single IP to 1) my system  2) the web
> host/server  3) the 
> DNS server 4) virtual hosts
> 
> Once I sort this out I should have enough knowledge
> to back out of 
> DynDNS and TZO as they only add additional "Domain"
> issues
> the domain I want is not used anywhere and I don't
> like the "free" 
> choices I am given. I don't want to work "in the
> box" or "outside the 
> box" I want to work as if there is "no box" after
> all who said I have to 
> pay to use the Internet, it is bad enough I need to
> pay to access it, 
> however I offset this cost by using VOIP to
> eliminate by phone bills, 
> but that is another forum all together.
> 
> Please keep the advice and suggestions coming.
> 
> thanks too all who respond ( even the other old
> folks ;-)
> 
> -Philip
> 
> 
> Stephen Cook wrote:
> 
> > this just means that you CAN use their service,
> but you can still set 
> > up port forwarding and such manually and use
> DynDNS.org or no-ip.com 
> > or whatever. the built-in option is just simpler
> to set up (not by a 
> > whole lot either), at the price of actually having
> to pay.
> >
> >
> > NetSuporte wrote:
> >
> >> Robert,
> >>
> >> I also used the free service of DynDNS
> >>
> >> the model I have is ( network everywhere )
> LynkSys
> >>
> >> cable/DSL router Model Number:NR041
> >>
> >> This is on the DDNS configuration screen inside
> the router:
> >> DDNS (Dynamic DNS) allows assigning a domain name
> to a dynamic WAN IP 
> >> address,
> >> making it easier to host Web, FTP, or other
> servers.
> >> The Dynamic DNS service is powered by TZO.com.
> >>
> >> To use the Dynamic DNS Services, please sign up
> for a free 30 day 
> >> trial
>
<http://www.tzo.com/MainPageDownload/30days_free.html>
> >> To order the TZO service, click here
> <http://www.tzo.com/order.html>
> >>    To manage your domain name and related
> services: 
> >> Controlpanel.tzo.com
> <http://Controlpanel.tzo.com>
> >> TZO Password Key:  -philip
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert Zagarello wrote:
> >>
> >>> NetSuporte,
> >>>
> >>> I use a D-Link DI-624 that doesn't complain. 
> Who
> >>> wants to charge you?  I did not use DynDNS's
> >>> subscription $$$, only their free service.  It
> means
> >>> you have to use one of their domain names.
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to know the Linksys model you are using
> so I
> >>> can tell people to avoid it !  Thanks.  BZAG
> >>> =================================
> >>>
> >>> --- NetSuporte <netsuporte@superig.com.br>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Robert
> >>>>
> >>>> Right off I ran into a snag my Lynksys router
> >>>> insists I use TZO.COM
> >>>> and they charge a fee after 30 days.
> >>>>
> >>>> That really sucks as I discovered this after
> signing
> >>>> on with DYNDNS.ORG
> >>>> Where they assigned me a domain of
> homelinux.com A redirected host 
> >>>> name of quecaixa.webhop.net with
> >>>> the redirected URL of www.quecaixa.com.br:8222
> >>>> cloaked - yes
> >>>> cloak = www.quecaixa.com.br
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure what the cloaked stuff is about
> exactly but
> >>>> with or with out I still
> >>>> cannot get to my server outside my own net.
> >>>>
> >>>> So I will try to enable DMZ and see if it
> helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> Philip
> >>>>
> >>>> Robert Zagarello wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> Here are some guidelines for running a private
> web
> >>>>> server on your home network for internet
> >>>>> accessibility.  I think I've included
> everything. This is actually 
> >>>>> what I am using myself (am running
> >>>>> NetBSD) and it is working:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. Use Dynamic DNS and a 3rd party DDNS
> service
> >>>>> provider like dyndns.org.  There should be an
> entry
> >>>>> for DDNS in your home cable/DSL router for
> this.     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> don't need an internet registered domain and
> DNS
> >>>>> address - the DDNS service will do it.  You
> don't
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> need
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> a static IP address from your ISP for your
> router.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2. Install and run the SSH daemon for remote
> admin
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> your web server.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3. On remote Windows PCs use PuTTY and PuTTY's
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> command
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> line utilities for up/downloading files from
> your
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> web
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> server.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 4.  On your cable/DSL home router put an entry
> for
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> remote IP addresses in your firewall,
> specifying
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> host and SSH ports, and route them to your web
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> server.
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> 5.  Put an entry in your router's firewall for
> the
> >>>>> router itself, as in the previous step, to
> test
> >>>>> internet accessibility from your home network.
>  If
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> you
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> put an entry for your web server's host name
> in a
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> home
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> network PC's hosts file, you will access the
> web
> >>>>> server without going out to the internet.  If
> you
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> use
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> the web server's FQDN (full host plus domain
> name,
> >>>>> fully qualified domain name), your home PC
> will
> >>>>> actually request name translation from your
> ISP's
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> DNS,
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> which is your router, and then direct your
> request
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> your router's WAN side port, effectively
> testing
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> for
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> internet accessibility.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 6. In your web server's host file put your
> DDNS
> >>>>> address and FQDN (full host plus domain name,
> fully
> >>>>> qualified domain name) you got from your DDNS
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> service
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> provider.  Don't put in the web server's
> private
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> LAN
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> address.  Note the IP address may change
> because
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> you
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> are using DDNS - but it doesn't change that
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> frequently
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> - so you may want to run a script that checks
> it
> >>>>> daily.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 7.  You may want to put a simple non-dotted
> >>>>> up-to-15-character name for your ISP's DNS to
> test
> >>>>> name resolution from your web server when you
> have
> >>>>> problems using nslookup for example (you have
> to
> >>>>> specify the server using nslookup because the
> web
> >>>>> server is on your home network).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 8.  You can also put a simple non-dotted
> >>>>> up-to-15-character name (say, just the host
> name
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> only
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> of the FQDN) for the web server in your home
> PC's
> >>>>> hosts file to permit local testing of your web
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> server.
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> 9.  In rc.conf (I am running NetBSD) on the
> web
> >>>>> server,   put in the DDNS FQDN as the hostname
> and
> >>>>> similarly its domain part for the domainname.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are entries above for the IP address
> that are
> >>>>> made manually so these have to be checked
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> periodically
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> if changed by your broadband ISP.  (This does
> not
> >>>>> include the DDNS entry in the router which
> will
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> update
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> your DDNS service entry automatically).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BZAG
> >>>>> =======================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> The official User-To-User support forum of the
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Apache HTTP Server Project.
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> See
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> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> for more info.
> >>>>  
> >>>>
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> >>>>>     
> >>>>
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> >>>>  
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> >>>>   
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>> The official User-To-User support forum of the
> >>>> Apache HTTP Server Project.
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> >>>
> >>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>> Project.
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> >>>
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> >>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> The official User-To-User support forum of the
> Apache HTTP Server 
> >> Project.
> >> See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html>
> for more info.
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> >>
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> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Apache HTTP Server 
> > Project.
> > See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html>
> for more info.
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> >
> 
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for
> more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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> For additional commands, e-mail:
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> 
> 




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