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From Adam Buglass <adam.bugl...@ncl.ac.uk>
Subject Re: [users@httpd] assembly language and apache
Date Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:03:23 GMT
My sincere apologies if I've insulted or belittled anyone. It was never
my intention.

OP stands for "Original Poster". I wasn't sure who you were and didn't
have your name to hand so OP is a regularly used term on forums such as
this which is not improper or derogatory in any way, shape or form.

I'm not sure whether the tomcat netiquette pages refer to the term "OP"
as it's a while since I've read them.

As for confronting the "individual who's the problem first", I agree.
However first of all I don't see you as a problem, rather as someone
with intersting thoughts which it may prove educational to discuss.
Secondly, like most people on this board (so I believe, correct me if
I'm wrong) I don't have the time to go back through the message history
and find the original post so I just hit the "RE:" button with the
intention that everyone can see and understand the point I'm trying to
make.

If you did not like my opening sentence "overlooking the fact..." then
let me assure I was merely stating a conclusion where I didn't have the
time or inclination to show my working, as it where. I've read your post
on how you define Hex as a programming language and it's an interesting
well thought out argument, although I am still not convinced!

I decided to put forward my thoughts on the issue, if you have any reply
on them then please go for it! I will very rarely be arrogant enough to
always believe that I know best!!

Best wishes,
--the name you take a liking to  :-)

On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 05:08, Barth (John) Jones wrote:
> I hope to read your message soon, but for now I'll just comment on your
> character as it applies to user integrity on this board.  [Isn't it proper
> to confront the individual who's the problem first rather than an
> administrator or whatever the position in life, even when the problem is
> more established in the arena?]  To date, I've not insulted and will never
> willfully insult anyone on this board.  But with certainty you've belittled
> me once, and I'm not sure what "OP" is but I'm guessing it's a second
> occurence, which isn't proper in any forum, especially one that lauds
> "proper etiquette".  I'll leave at that good friend.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Adam Buglass" <adam.buglass@ncl.ac.uk>
> To: <users@httpd.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 9:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [users@httpd] assembly language and apache
> 
> 
> > Correct. Over-looking the fact that the OP seems to have confused Hex
> > with programming languages, Assembly language is normally only used to
> > write highly specialised code for the reasons listed below. This is
> > often for embedded applications but could also be for a very specific
> > application intended for a particular use. Assembly language is often
> > the most useful for small scale electronic interface applications.
> >
> > With technology such as it is, machine code could never be realistically
> > employed for a widely used piece of software such as Apache. Even if it
> > were technically viable, the HR overheads would, I expect, be horrific!
> >
> > Still, it's an interesting concept and sounds like a fascinating project
> > if you wished to undertake it!
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 14:11, Mark.Rippe@cox.com wrote:
> > > working in assembly is hard but the rewards are great. [usually]
> > > one winds up with a program/app/etc. that screams.
> > > on the down side, one small error can bite you in ways that say every 6
> months,
> > > your app calmly and quietly blows up your database. chasing errors like
> this are
> > > painful and in the end you may never be able to find the problem.
> > > moving even a small part of an app to machine language now limits the
> app to one specific
> > > class of cpu. i.e. pentium, sparc, etc.
> > > with less than a thorough understanding of machine code for the
> processor [80386 is different from a 80486,
> > > which is different from a pentium 1 which is different from a pentium 4,
> etc. etc.]
> > > an app can easily be written that will run on the authors machine but
> nowhere else.
> > > apache is too ubiquitous to be throttled in such a way.
> > > machine code is the only way to go if you are a yahoo, askjeeves, etc.
> > > you will then be buying a purpose built server and the code will be
> tailored to this machine class and function.
> > >
> > > higher level languages, basic ??, cobol, fortran, ada and the many
> variations of c all use very stock
> > > and thoroughly tested routines. the debug functions are well tested so
> that even very small errors will show themselves.
> > > asm is a write it, run it and cross your fingers code.
> > > unless you are a version of lotus, microsoft, ibm, or a very rich
> person, you will not be able to afford a proper asm debug suite.
> > > so now with asm parts coming from unknown sources, the quality and
> reputation of apache and other programs come into question
> > > applying asm to programs like apache, i feel, is a giant step backward.
> > > apache in its present form, runs on anything that has a c compiler.
> > > even the bloated monstrosity by microsoft.
> > > moving even a small part of an app to machine language now limits the
> app to one specific
> > > class of cpu. i.e. pentium, sparc, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > mark.rippe@cox.com
> > >
> > >
> > > "The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once."
> > > -Albert Einstein
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Barth (John) Jones [mailto:musicbybarth@alltel.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:52 PM
> > > To: users@httpd.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [users@httpd] assembly language and apache
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, the word "versatile" comes into play doesn't it?  With Hex you
> can
> > > accomplish basically anything that higher level languages don't enable
> you
> > > to do, if you have the time that is.  You could even write your own
> > > language, which is basically what programming is anyway.  It's all based
> on
> > > Hex.  Everything from Windows, DOS, Unix, Apache, http protocol, ascii,
> > > everything comes down to assembly language.  So basically you can write
> a
> > > program to make every component compatible.  If it applies to anything
> it
> > > would certainly apply to Apache wouldn't it, since Apache is open
> source.
> > > You could write programs that can be downloaded by your users that they
> can
> > > use to interact between various hardware and software components on
> their
> > > computer and the Apache host that Apache doesn't ordinarily include.
> It's
> > > really endless what you can do with Hex isn't it?  Or are you saying
> that
> > > anything that can be accomplished with Hex can also be accomplished with
> > > higher level languages?  Like what if I wanted to make my keyboard do
> > > something that's not on the keyboard chip and BIOS?  Suppose I wanted to
> use
> > > all the keys on my keyboard to function as several dozen octaves of
> > > beep-tonality?  Will the higher level languages also enable me to do
> this?
> > > If yes, then I guess my Q is moot.  If no, then what sort of things can
> we
> > > do between Apache and Hex?
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Tim Burden" <Tim@Burden.ca>
> > > To: <users@httpd.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:18 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [users@httpd] assembly language and apache
> > >
> > >
> > > > You wouldn't. Why would you want to?
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Barth (John) Jones" <musicbybarth@alltel.net>
> > > > To: <users@httpd.apache.org>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 7:01 PM
> > > > Subject: [users@httpd] assembly language and apache
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > How would you apply assembly language to apache?  Any good links
in
> this
> > > > > area?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> Project.
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> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
> Project.
> > > See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > >    "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> > -- 
> > Adam Buglass,  ><>
> > The Golden Freeway.
> >
> > Unit 1,
> > Wear Valley Business Centre,
> > 27 Longfield Road,
> > South Church Enterprise Park,
> > Bishop Auckland.
> > DL14 6XB
> >
> > (01388) 778424
> >
> > http://www.thegoldenfreeway.com
> > http://www.golduk.net
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> > See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> >    "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>    "   from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
-- 
Adam Buglass,  ><>
The Golden Freeway.

Unit 1,
Wear Valley Business Centre,
27 Longfield Road,
South Church Enterprise Park,
Bishop Auckland.
DL14 6XB

(01388) 778424

http://www.thegoldenfreeway.com
http://www.golduk.net


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