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From "Leif W" <warp-...@usa.net>
Subject Re: [users@httpd] LIMIT BANDWIDHT USING APACHE 2.0.44
Date Thu, 04 Sep 2003 22:14:56 GMT
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Eric" <ef@kwinternet.com>
> To: <users@httpd.apache.org>; <users@httpd.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [users@httpd] LIMIT BANDWIDHT USING APACHE 2.0.44
>
> Hi,
>
> It might be better handled by a firewall, see OpenBSD, pf.

Agreed, partly.  In one sense, it might be desireable to leave such things
to to a separate box specialized and suited to a specific task, to share the
work load.  When I mention a "solution" for Apache, I did not intend to
restrict the solution domain to the range of Apache alone, but to the more
flexible interpretation of the range of Apache, and the operating system and
environment it runs on (either single system or chained with firewalls then
the web server).  As such, some solution examples might be to drop in a
specialized "bandwidth shaper" (box running your favorite Linux or FreeBSD,
etc.), or to have the bandwidth solution run on the same server as the web
server, but a 3rd party software package, or to have some Apache module, as
others have mentioned.

But think of the added complexity of having to maintain two sets of "host
configs" just to limit bandwidth (one VirtualHost, and one host-pased
bandwidth limiting).  And someone suggested even finer-grained per-directory
control.  And I can imagine even finer grained per-user bandwidth, and ACL
style directory/user combinations of bandwidth management.  This would seem
exceedingly difficult to separate from Apache, either with dual configs or
packet filtering (across boxes) or some such mechanism for doing all this
bandwidth shaping.

> Apache has enough to do!

It's been a long time since I looked at IIS or any other web server, so I
don't know what features they have (like bandwidth shaping) -- and it may
just be a little healthy paranoia trying to anticipate what the competition
might do and try to get there as well -- but since people are starting to
ask bandwidth shaping questions, (and not brand new, some were looking for
some months now), it indicates to me that there is an evolution taking place
as the need is clearly arising.  Apache does so much, and does it so well,
agreed wholeheartedly, that's why I'm here, that's why something like 60% on
the web servers are Apache.  :-)  But the fear in my mind is that Apache
Group sits on the laurels of their success, smugly shrugging off new
ideas -- assuming that because they have been the best, and are the best
now, they will also be in the future -- while other companies go after these
otherwise discarded ideas, implement them, and thus steal market share.  So
I am only using this "bandwidth" (haha, pun) here to point out that this may
be an opportunity for growth to meet an emerging need.  In the past, when
people needed the rewrite capability, or the *Match capability, (or any of
the other nifty features of Apache I have yet to learn), how often were they
answered with "Apache does enough already!".  Probably quite a lot and
eventually over time the need grew and time was found to introduce and
implement some hacks.

If I knew C and the Apache internals well enough, or even enough to write
modules, I'd gladly put some time into a solution to this question.  I will
probably get a book on Apache module writing and check out the other module
sources for Apache 1.3.

Thanks,

Leif

P.S. And I only expound upon this topic as I felt a discussion needed to
start somewhere.

> Thanks,
> Eric
>
> At 12:59 PM 2003-09-04, Leif W wrote:
> > Note, this reply may be off topic.
> >
> >This is a good question I think, as other web servers may already have
some
> >feature like this, so there should be some focus on systems running
Apache
> >to find equivalent solutions, in order to continue to compete.
> >
> >I've done some searching with Google for "Linux host based bandwith
> >management shaping" (and variations), but it's hard to find anything
> >specific.
> >
> >First, I found the Apache mod_bandwidth page (
> >http://www.cohprog.com/v3/bandwidth/intro-en.html ), but the latest
release
> >was 2003-01-12, and there's no mention of Apache 1.3.x or 2.0.x anywhere
in
> >the sparse documentation, so I am leery of this seemingly stale software
> >project.
> >
> >The only relelvent stuff I found was the ADSL Bandwidth Management HOWTO
(
> >http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/ADSL-Bandwidth-Management-HOWTO/ )
and
> >the HTB queue patch (included with kernel 2.4.20 and higher,
> >http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/ ).
> >
> >Linux Advanced Routing & Traffic Control ( http://www.lartc.org/ ).
> >
> >Unfortunately the only bandwidth management I could see were IP-based.
> >
> >I did come across various commercial hardware products claiming to do
> >host-based bandwidth management, but I did not spend much time looking at
> >those, as I do not have such money to throw away, when there's bound to
be
> >some way to do it better, for free (eventually).
> >
> >Leif
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tomas Larsson" <larssontomas@telia.com>
> > > To: <users@httpd.apache.org>; "'Jefferson Midei'"
<jmidei@wmweb.com.br>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:28 PM
> > > Subject: SV: [users@httpd] LIMIT BANDWIDHT USING APACHE 2.0.44
> >>
> >
> > > Hi Jefferson.
> > > Have you got any solutions yet, I'm allso looking for the same,
haven't
> > > found anything yet, and no reply from the group either.
> > >
> > > With best regards
> > >
> > > Tomas Larsson
> >>
> > > Verus amicus est tamquam alter idem
> > >
> > >
> > > All messages originating from me are scanned with the latest updates
of
> > > Norton Antivirus 2K3.
> > >
> > > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > > > Från: Jefferson Midei [mailto:jmidei@wmweb.com.br]
> > > > Skickat: den 2 september 2003 19:34
> > > > Till: users@httpd.apache.org
> > > > Kopia: Luiz Eduardo
> > > > Ämne: [users@httpd] LIMIT BANDWIDHT USING APACHE 2.0.44
> > > > Prioritet: Hög
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >                 Dear Sirs,
> > > >
> > > > My name is Jefferson Midei, and I'm in Brasil.
> > > >
> > > > I'm using a Linux Server, Conectiva (RedHat) 9.0, kernel 2.4.21, and
> > > > WebServer Apache 2.0.44.
> > > >
> > > > I have about 150 virtual domains in my Apache Server, and I'm using
a
> > > > "namebased" configuration (sharing one IP)...
> > > >
> > > > I need to limit the usage of my bandwidth per virtual domain, and I
> > > >don't
> > > > know how to do that, or what I need to do that...
> > > >
> > > > I looked for "limit bandwidth" in the hystory of this maillist, but
I
> > > >just
> > > > found solutions for Apache 1.3 (mod_bandwidth)...
> > > >
> > > > Please, help me...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Jefferson Midei
> > > > jmidei@wmweb.com.br
> > > >



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