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From "David" <amdaw...@starhub.net.sg>
Subject [users@httpd] Apache has FrontPage Server Installation
Date Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:31:23 GMT

Hello !


Many thanks for your insightful elaboration to move away from FrontPage
as a web development tool. 

Frontpage is easy to understand and easy to use. I do enjoy the use of
FrontPage for its ease of use and most importantly to me, I find it very
easy to understand the software ( the use of it, that is). It is
intended as a statement of opinion ; but not expressly represent a
statement of fact or information about FP's capability in their HTML
generation. Anyway, thanks for the tip and write-up on FP's html
generation, will keep that in mind when I look at their HTML codes. 

Having said that, I next wonder if there is a need to use these web
developers at all, since most of you seem to purport the idea of
hand-coding instead of web "IDEs". I am pretty new to web development
still. What approach should a web hobbyist take when developing his
site? When should he hand-code the pages, when should he use web
development softwares like DreamWeaver ( considering most of you are
already ? 



-----Original Message-----
From: Leif W [mailto:warp-9.9@usa.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 5:14 AM
To: users@httpd.apache.org
Subject: Re: [users@httpd] Apache has FrontPage Server Installation ?

My $0.02.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David" <amdawong@starhub.net.sg>
To: <users@httpd.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: [users@httpd] Apache has FrontPage Server Installation ?


> Dear Bill,
>
> Perhaps you are right. However, you have to agree to a certain extent 
> that FrontPage is really a good starting point for most amateur web 
> hobbyist. I am one. Frontpage is easy to understand and easy to use.

By this excuse or reasoning, any GUI program may be a good starting
point, to generate some code, and then look at the code.  But why not
use something like DreamWeaver?  Anyways, by choosing FP, it's maybe an
easy place for you to start, but IMHO it's like a crutch which easily
turns into a ball and chain, keeping you from learning anything of
substance, like CGI programming for simple forms processing using Perl
or PHP.  And by the way, I leanred HTML code by viewing source on web
pages, copying sections, pasting into emacs (later in vi, NotePad or
TextPad or UltraEdit when in win-land). Basic theme: a plain-text editor
is ALL YOU NEED, and in fact should be REQUIRED to learn HTML properly.
You'll make mistakes and LEARN from them.
:-)

All these "server extensions" are doing is stuff you can handle with
Perl or PHP (or shell script or TCL or Python or Java or C or C++), and
you don't need them.  Even if you want to develop in Front Page
initially (yikes! it makes SCARY code), the best technique is by
tweaking the code, looking in the browser and taking note of what
changed.  You can "rip the guts" out of the HTML FORM, and just change
the NAME attributes and the ACTION and METHOD attributes, and point it
to your own script.  It's fairly easy once you get the hang of it.  You
could look for tutorial sites from Google.  I could even write a VERY
SIMPLE example (off list) and show you, as a place to get started.

> More of a concern to me is that security of web servers running 
> frontpage server extensions. I understand from previous discussions
that
> Apache by far is one of the most reliable web servers around.
>
> I would like to know if installing IIS ( which is required if I want
to
> use FrontPage Server Extensions,FPSE) and subsequently installing FPSE

> will affect the security of my server - specifically more susceptible
to
> hacker attacks ?

If security is your major concern then I can't think you'd spend any
time considering IIS.  You'd probably be infected within a week and
spewing out attacks on other computers, not to mention probably root
compromised within a few months.  Unless you're planning to stay awake
night and day, update all those hotfixes as soon as they come out, i.e.
LONG BEFORE they find themselves on the windows update page, if you can
deal with security holes that go for months unfixed, and can do without
the excellent Apache Users support of a mailing list and accompanying
archives and online documentation and community, then by all means go
over to IIS.

Leif

> Many thanks for your time and attention.
>
> Warmest Regards
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Moran [mailto:wmoran@potentialtech.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:07 AM
> To: users@httpd.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [users@httpd] Apache has FrontPage Server Installation ?
>
> David wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Recently I created a forum website running on my Apache HTTP Server.
> >
> > All was well and fine I designed and implemented the website on my 
> > computer. When I mount it on the apache server and do a test run, 
> > problems occur.
> >
> > "
> > 1. FrontPage Run-Time Component Page
> > You have submitted a form or followed a link to a page that requires
a
> > web server and the FrontPage Server Extensions to function properly.

> > This form or other FrontPage component will work correctly if you 
> > publish this web to a web server that has the FrontPage Server 
> > Extensions installed. 1.1 Click the <Back> arrow to return to the 
> > previous page. "
> >
> > Any idea how can I go round this problem ?
>
> 2 choices (if you want to continue using Apache):
>
> 1. Use something other than Fronpage to build your web page 
> (recommended,
>     since Frontpage creates web pages that are standards-broken
anyway)
> 2. Install one of the Frontpage modules to Apache.  There are two that
>     I'm aware of, there may be more.  A search on google will be very
>     helpful.
>
> The third choice would be abandon Apache and use Microsoft IIS, but I 
> wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
>
> --
> Bill Moran
> Potential Technologies
> http://www.potentialtech.com
>
>
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