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From "Jack L. Stone" <>
Subject RE: [users@httpd] Frontpage Server Extensions on Win2kpro Apache and Where should I start reading?
Date Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:04:58 GMT
At 02:24 PM 10.23.2002 +0200, Koen Vingerhoets wrote:
>well I think you should lol but not that it really matters...  I'll put this
>on the list again, even if it's a little out topic.
>1) IIS is part of Windows 2000.  If you select add/remove programs, add
>windows components, you'll see it pop in there.  IIS.  Make sure it's
>patched heh... Insecure as a kindergarten.  It's not hard to configure :)
>2) Apache and IIS won't conflict if you put IIS at another port (let's say
>81).  There are big differences between Apache on Windows and on UNIX...
>3) I HATE FP extensions.  Not many web servers support them, they're
>useless, and can be easily made in other languages (DHTML).  IMHO, it's just
>another MS spoiler for the people who really don't want to put in any
>effort.  As I see you have several editors, I don't think you go without
>effort.  For myself, I use 1stpage2000, DreamWeaver MX and HomeSite 5.0.
>But I also edit a lot in Notepad :)
>If you really want some other stuff: is the place
>to be.
>An ASP hitcounter are only a few lines.
>4) You don't need FrontPage at all.  WYSIWYG is cool, but other editors
>(especially DreamWeaver) have it too.  FP is really really generous with
>code.  Just hit the HTML button in the bottom from time to time... If you
>put cleaner tools on it, they freak.  FP is really not needed.
>I make 3 folders usually: /pages , /incs, /pics
>/pages is for the pages
>/pics for the pictures
>/incs for jscripts or pieces of code I want to use muktiple times
>You really don't need the FrontPage crap.  IMHO, HomeSite is one of the best
>editors around, it's fairly easy to use and not so buttonstuffed as
>5) I started with HTML and Javascript like 3 years ago (
>Quickly after that, I learned flash (
>Then I learned CFML as well (
>About 2 years ago, I started on ASP ( ;
>Around the same time I switched jobs and started on JSP (
>A year ago DHTML took my attention
>Meanwhile I learned WML, I'll built a WAP site soon as my GF has a WAP
>enabled gsm now :)
>Then I started administration on a game, so I learned PHP (
>I added SQL to talk to Access, DB2 and MySQL databases.
>IMO, ASP is fairly easy to use, with some really great sites
>But the base is HTML....  I started on FrontPage as well, but I never used
>the extensions, and I learned HTML by switching between the HTML and the
>But try out HomeSite, it's my favourite.
>I hope this helps.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: david hawcroft []
>Sent: 23 October 2002 14:00
>Subject: RE: [users@httpd] Frontpage Server Extensions on Win2kpro
>Apache and Where should I start reading?
>Hi Koen
> and thankyou for your reply. If I should reply to the list and not
>to you please let me know and I'll do just that.
>  I don't use IIS because I thought it part of the whole Visual
>Studio.Net thing which was causing problems on my machine - and the
>web server never worked - so I uninstalled it all.
>   And I now think it will conflict with my Apache server so I don't
>reinstall it (if I can... can I?).  And I want the Apache server.. I
>plan to go back to Unix eventually and I support Open Systems etc.,
>and I think it's where I want to be...
>   BUT MAINLY : please tell me the serious stuff about FP
>Even if you must use foul language.. I don't much care... I just want
>to know what's what.
>  If FP extensions are a bag of crap or something then that's a
>straightforward serious answer for me. I won't try to use any of the
>stuff in FrontPage that requires them.
>  There's plenty of other stuff I can get, written in Perl or PHP or
>whatever that will provide all these bells and whistles I think.... I
>don't NEED the Frontpage hitcounter or whatever...  It was just
>there.. I tried it and came to this problem.....
>  AND that raises the question: do I need FrontPage at all?
>     I've got: Frontpage, Dreamweaver (demo), MsPublisher, MS Word,
>1stPage2000,AdobePagemaker - all capable of creating web pages and
>sites I think.. and I might even have more...
>    I just don't know what I should be using... Frontpage seemed the
>best to me of all I've tried so far but it writes files to every
>folder in my web server... I haven't got the hang of it's 'web' idea
>and it's bells and whistles won't work without these extensions....
>  So please let me know in whatever language you find appropriate
>what's the best road for me to tread...
>  regards,

No matter how much the other poster ctiticizes FP, I can only assume he
doesn't need to manage much content on a daily basis. We've been using FP
for more than 5 years and would never be able to keep up with the demands
of publishing an online Tech magazine for 60,000 readers in 181 countries.

While Note Pad can be used for little things, (and perhaps a website that
is static with few and infrequent changes) that would be a joke for the
magazine publication. We'd need 10X the staff to keep up. Also, FP provides
a tremendous amount of functionality (prefab cgi stuff), online order forms
(all sorts of forms actually) and prefab Forums, etc.

Not only are we a user, but we admin our own group of servers that hosts
our own sites and numerous others, all Tech/Professional sites with in
excess of 100,000 members. We've used WinNT in the past, but for the past
several years we have switched to UNIX and love it. NT is the real
nightmare because of security and instability.

Yes, FP is a real pain to administer, but it does work and if speed with
less overhead for website production is a must, then FP does it. Many share
the "hatred" for FP and we wouldn't use it either if we had a better
choice. It's just a questions of need and we'd never have kept up without

Best regards,
Jack L. Stone,

SageOne Net

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