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From Tony Stevenson <pct...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Proposal to move docs to Apache CMS
Date Wed, 02 May 2012 21:55:07 GMT
Nóirín Plunkett wrote on Wed, May 02, 2012 at 02:50:21PM -0700:
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:40 PM, André Malo <nd@perlig.de> wrote:
> > * Nóirín Plunkett wrote:
> >>
> >> I, for one, welcome our new CMS overlords :-)
> >>
> >> Seriously though, the hassle of checking out the docs tree, finding
> >> the build tree, remembering where I'm meant to check that out to, ...
> >> is, well, a hassle.
> >
> > Well. There's not effort needed for *that* hassle. It's documented on the
> > docs-project pages (since ever). [1] [2]
> >
> > http://httpd.apache.org/docs-project/docsformat.html
> 
> Except that that page is a nightmare to find, and only tells me what
> to do after I'm already on step three.
> 
> It might not seem like much hassle to you, but it's enough to blow
> away my motivation to fix anything.
> 
> > OTOH, remembering where the CMS is and how it works, would actually be a
> > hassle for *me* (and I'd guess, various developers trying to write
> > documentation while writing code, too [which should be encouraged!]).
> 
> For me, "the CMS" is just a bookmarklet in my browser. And when I'm on
> a new machine, or I've forgotten how it works, I search for apache cms
> and a set of reasonably clear instructions pops up as the third result
> in Google.
> 
> > - Also it's a nice thing to check in documentation together with code. From
> >  time to time patches arrive that way. In fact, I'd rather support more of
> >  those.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> > - Oh, patches. How does the CMS deal with those in general? Do I need to
> >  apply them manually then in a browser window?

No, you can apply them directly against the svn tree used to build the site.  The CMS is NOT
a browser only option. 

> > - Which leads to the next point: I've never used the CMS. How does it play
> >  together with my own editor?

The CMS is built entorely around SVN.  If you check out the tree, edit locally, and commit,
you can goto the staging site and see your changes (as soon as buildbot has run the build
task). 

> > - How does the CMS play along with the other build targets (CHM, tarball). I
> >  guess, it does not at all (CHM needs windows in very specific
> >  configurations). So we still need a separate build system then?
> >
> > - How does the CMS handle the build output? (e.g. ./build.sh de emits the
> >  outdated de-translations at the end)
> 
> I don't know the answers to these questions, and I certainly don't
> assume that the CMS is perfect. Moving to the CMS will almost
> certainly require changes in workflow, and may well make things harder
> for some people. But our current system effectively excludes other
> people. That may be ok with y'all, in which case I'll go back to
> lurking, but I'd rather be knowingly excluded than silently :-)
> 
> > [1] *Sigh* I'm wondering, why so many people here don't know about OUR
> >    docs-project pages.
> 
> They're hard to find. Even when I know they exist, I can't find them.
> 
> > [2] Not everybody needs to run the build system (some people don't even have
> >    java on their box). Someone else will run it then at the next
> >    opportunity. In fact, it's encouraged that you run it only on languages
> >    you understand enough.
> 
> I've broken the build with poor XML more than once, so I don't like to
> check in anything I haven't built.
> 
> N
> 
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-- 

Cheers,
Tony


---------------------------------------
Tony Stevenson

tony@pc-tony.com  //  pctony@apache.org
tony@caret.cam.ac.uk

http://blog.pc-tony.com

GPG - 1024D/51047D66
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