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From "Roy T. Fielding" <field...@gbiv.com>
Subject Re: adopt www.apache.org site design
Date Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:06:22 GMT
On Apr 24, 2008, at 6:32 AM, Joshua Slive wrote:
> The pages you pointed to as examples used <100% for their default text
> fonts (at least the ones I checked). If you're trying to make an
> empirical argument, start by checking the data.

I looked at the characters on screen.  I don't care if the characters  
are
styled by the "default font" or the "content font" or the "header font".
What matters is the stuff I need to read is readable.  They might  
even be
switching stylesheets based on user-agent and we are looking at entirely
different styles.  I can only assure you that the content text is no  
less
than 14pt in Firefox on a Mac and the look is decidedly modern.  Smaller
fonts are only used for extracts/legalese/follow-link-to-read-more  
stuff.

> I'm not saying the font currently used on www.apache.org is the best
> choice. I was making a particular point to Nick, who is a little bit
> of a purest (for reasons I fully understand). I agree that the font is
> a little too small and the background would look better in white.
>
>>  As far as modern design is concerned, it simply isn't true that
>>  cropping all the images on the page when the window is shrunk is
>>  better than establishing a fixed minimum for the design.  Scrollbars
>>  work better than missing content.
>
> www.apache.org doesn't do the cropping. I made that change for Nick.
>
> Which just goes to show why I stated in my original email that I
> wasn't interested in nitpicking the design with a bunch of back-seat
> quarterbacks. Everyone has different opinions about what constitutes
> good design. I was trying to adopt something that had a pretty-obvious
> consensus positive opinion.

Just because the PRC is happy to redesign www.apache.org without so much
as a whisper on the site-dev list does not mean there was consensus.  It
is difficult to adjust www.apache.org because of the overlapping  
stylesheets
are fairly screwed for edits.  In any case, I've got way better  
things to
do then this.

>>  So, in short, -1.  The logo will not change without a full vote of
>>  the PMC
>
> When was the last time the PMC had a "full vote" on anything?

Whenever someone votes -1 on a CTR documentation change.  Have you
forgotten that we have guidelines?

> But if you are feeling that obstructionist about it, that is fine with
> me. I'll drop the whole thing.

Stop your whining.  You asked for objections and I gave mine.  If you
don't like them and want to continue, then prototype what you actually
want and put it to vote.  If it isn't worth doing that, then don't.
Don't try to make me feel guilty just because I have an opinion.

....Roy


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